Based Apo edition
>what is Rojava?
The Democratic Federal System of Northern Syria, also called Rojava, is a region in northern Syria that has become self-governing in the wake of the Syrian Civil War.
>why should /leftypol/ care?
The ideology of the Democratic Union Party (PYD), the leading party in the coalition which currently governs Rojava, is a libertarian socialist strain of thought called Communalism. Communalism was developed by the American ex-anarchist Murray Bookchin and later attracted the attention of Abdullah Öcalan, the imprisoned leader of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in Turkey. From there, the ideology spread to the predominantly Kurdish Rojava.
>so they're Kurdish nationalists?
Kurdish nationalist parties have a presence in Rojava, but the aforementioned governing coalition is multiethnic. Arabs, Assyrians, and other minorities are present in Rojava, and strives have been made to represent these groups in the politics of Rojava.
>#Syria #Aleppo Activist Say #MMC #Manbij Military Council Forces have "Received" Dozens of #Russian #Russia Armored Vehicles today @ #Arima
B-but I thought the the ethnoimperialist US bootlickers wouldn't be supported by le great anti-imperialist Russia? My tankie comrades told me so on twitter
first bit of torture I've ever seen documented at the hands of SDF. any these idiots will undoubtedly be prosecuted for this
did neoliberalism create the syrian civil war?
>fucking idiot doing a video of himself participating in the torture of a pow
Thank you for documenting yourself doing despicable abuse of another human being.
Is it known what group they belong to? I assume it is since it doesn't seem clear from the clip itself that they're SDF.
Does anybody know what the context of that clip is? Is he a PoW?
YPG admitted that some of their units probably mistreated and shot ISIS POWs before but that they try to stop that. First time its documented though afaik(If the shown man is indeed ISIS). Lets hope this gets dealt with appropriatly.
probably one of the Raqqa FSA groups within SDF, they've been a bit unruly and annoying so far.
the guy is likely an ISIS fighter or ISIS sympathiser.
They speak arabic (i.e arab SDF members). I don't understand why it is bad to hurt a daesh member. They're all dogs who deserve much worse than this. I've read one or two articles about fighters admitting to summary executions of daesh, I don't see how that's bad either.
Murder doesn't stop being murder regardless of who it's done to. If Daesh is bad then one should try to be as different as them as possible.
Ethics are an important, indeed inseparable, part of Ocalan's philosophy.
Unpopular opinion, but I agree.
Hardcore islamists are of no benefit to Syria or the revolution. Though it's better for now if they were just put to work to free up potential recruits.
This is total war. And Rojava is already strained heavily under the load of IDP. Add to that ten-thousands of prisoners to manage and clothe once the last ISIS holdings are crushed, and it's just going to be a huge burden.
Society is better off without people that approve of what ISIS has been doing.
>This argument again
The question to be asked is, what benefit is keeping people like this in society? They're at best a fifth column, and at worst a continuous strain on the revolution and the people of Syria.
They are, unmistakably.
Except these people don't care about that at all. When given the chance they'd have no qualms about wiping out anyone that doesn't conform to their madness. They'd sell Rojava's women and girls off as sexslaves to foreign sheiks, level it's cities, fill the mass graves with its old and young.
There is little benefit keeping such people as members of society, or wasting valuable time - that could be spend on reconstruction - on reeducating people that think genocide and raping children is okay.
Since the dawn of Islam this particular brand - then called the Khawarij - has stoked nothing but misery, civil wars and rampant destruction. Syria and the middle east wouldn't be at loss without them.
>Society is better off without people that approve of what ISIS has been doing.
And it's for you to decide whether they should be murdered or not?
>The question to be asked is, what benefit is keeping people like this in society?
If you only care about the people who benefit society then you should probably go ahead and remove the crippled, the retarded, criminals, etc. What is right doesn't stop being what is right when it's not convenient. People, individuals are the only thing that matters, and to sacrifice them for some intangible concept like "society" is actually what leads to the downfall of a society.
>They are, unmistakably. Except these people don't care about that at all.
So ethics don't need to be applied to unethical people?
>Syria and the middle east wouldn't be at loss without them.
And you think you remove them by murdering them all? How has that tactic worked so far? How has your tactic of brutality and violence trying to solve brutality and violence worked so far?
>And it's for you to decide whether they should be murdered or not?
It's up to whoever is in control. Power entitles you to decisions. And if it were up to them, we'd be dead. Don't forget that.
>If you only care about the people who benefit society then you should probably go ahead and remove the crippled, the retarded, criminals, etc.
Why shouldn't I or anyone be expected to at least be able to sustain ourselves? However, I won't put "benefit" purely in terms of economic productivity. Someone elderly that takes care of his or her grandchildren is also being productive in their own way. Likewise the family of an impaired individual can be net productive. I'm not a nazi.
Threatening to kill thousands of people however for no reason other than not agreeing with your very-particular-very-radical-snowflake-brand-of-islam is the absolute antithesis of that.
>What is right doesn't stop being what is right when it's not convenient.
Except we share different values.
>People, individuals are the only thing that matters, and to sacrifice them for some intangible concept like "society" is actually what leads to the downfall of a society.
It happens all the time. Collateral damage in warfare. Economic exploitation. Forced conscription. Sometimes you need to cut of an arm to the save the body, or force people to fight for their own survival. The decadent west rarely has to make these existential life-and-death decisions, but it just outsources its exploitation to the developing world.
>And you think you remove them by murdering them all?
To put it bluntly? Yes. It's kill or be killed. They've made that pretty clear over the past fourteen centuries.
>How has that tactic worked so far?
In many cases it's works pretty well. If you kill your enemies, you actually win.
>How has your tactic of brutality and violence trying to solve brutality and violence worked so far?
Except it's not about solving brutality and violence. It's about survival.
>another Human beings
For all that Daesh has done, he deserves the strapaddo/beat down. This might even know this person to be a war-criminal. At worst they should be reprimanded for lack of discipline.
>because X group is are enemy and does not subscribe to the same ethics we do, we should just give up on our ethics entirely
>people are somehow just naturally evil and bad and the conditions of their environment have naught to do with it
Take off that flag
>"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"? sounds like some dumb shit to me lmao XDDD
Probably good that it's an Arab SDF member torturing that ISIS guy because you can be sure if he was Kurdish it'd framed as ethnic thing and we'd get another amnesty report about how Kurds are committing genocide
Is it Daeshfag shitposting hour already?
Anyone who joins Daesh has, by that action, renounced to his human rights, imo
Nothin personnel, kid.
>Anti-ISIS envoy @Brett_Mcgurk has told KRP @Masoud_Barzani the United States does not want forces other than KRG and Baghdad in Sinjar.
Leave yezidis alone you cunts
YBS is Baghdad, thats the joke.
>what use does liberals give to society again? they're all just gender studies graduates who try to get welfare systems implemented while working service jobs and still getting indebted to banks
>what benefit is keeping people like this in society?
Just don't fucking kill people unless you absolutely have to. War is war, I agree. That's why I'm not making posts telling the SDF to lay down arms and just do a meeting with ISIS. But this video is not war. This video is pure abuse.
Even if daesh is scum of the earth, even to the point of being subhuman (which I don't believe but whatever), I would still hold contempt for that, just like I hold contempt for people who torture or murder animals.
AND EVEN THEN if you absolutely have to kill them, don't fucking tortue people. Just put a bullet through their head and get it over with.
>[…] on reeducating people that think genocide and raping children is okay.
Yeah, they should've just killed every german who supported the Nazi party or the regime in any way. And it honestly would have been no ethical problem on my shoulder if they'd tortured them while doing it.
You can't just say
>They are, unmistakably. [about Ocalan's ethical theory]
And then go
>There is little benefit keeping such people as members of society, or wasting valuable time
Such a basic and childish utilitarianism. You're being called an edgelord because you display ethical understanding like that of a 14-yearold.
>Syria and the middle east wouldn't be at loss without them.
That might justify imprisoning them at length and/or for life. Don't fucking torture them. One should give them the sligtest bit of dignity that any concious being should expect.
>I'm not a nazi.
Yes you fucking are. You're saying that the reason to keep elderly alive is because they're able to take care of children or otherwise be productive and/or have a net productive effect. Fuck off, or at the very least stop calling yourself a leftist.
Measuring and basing your ethics on 'net productivety' is such a fucking ridiculous ethics that I can't believe I'm actually bothering even discussing this with you.
I hope you're a young individual who is not so ingrained in your beliefs that you can't rescind them at a later point in your life.
>Except we share different values.
So? You share different values with your neighbor. You share different values with your dog. You share different values with your own child. That doesn't justify treating them differently.
Life and society isn't the measure of who's within your ethical sphere and who's outside of it. That's the exact nationalist bullshit that nazi's espout.
>It happens all the time. Collateral damage in warfare. […]
You and I don't have to justify this though, just because they happen out of necessity. Being critical of that which is the state of the world is exactly the role that leftists and leftist politics should take upon itself.
Also, don't make torture or murder out to be this hardnecked well concidered decision of realpolitik. That shit amounts to defending hideous behavior by saying "defending the revolution" or "fighting counter-revolutionaries" akin to Russia almost exactly a century ago.
>Yes. It's kill or be killed.
What's going on in that video is not kill or be killed.
>Except it's not about solving brutality and violence. It's about survival.
This is not about survival. We're talking about murdering and/or torturing PoWs, which by definition is not about survival. None of us are talking about fighting a war in the general sense.
>The kid who joined daesh because his family was murdered and he was given no choice but to join or starve?
>no human rights lol, torture is a-ok
>The guy who was told to fight or let his family be raped?
>no human rights lol
>Not to speak of just the general leftist belief of materialist analysis
Neck yourself you fucking idiot.
Nice kindergarten indoctrination. If there's an invading terrorist force the defenders have to kill them. I get that violence is bad to you, living in a first world bubble, but in the real world you need to kill bad people.
Ẇhy does everybody think we're critiquing him for supporting killing daesh in a war?
Understand the argument before you start posting you fucking moron.
Torture and cold blooded murder =! defense or war
>>Murder doesn't stop being murder regardless of who it's done to
I'm not the one who posted that, but he was responding to a guy saying it was okay to torture PoWs if they were daesh.
That's not the situation you were describing. Own up to the view and defend it (That torturing people is okay as long as their views are sufficiently reactionary) if that's the one you actually hold, because it's the one you're defending right now by calling people who don't hold that view kindergarten indoctrinators who live outside of the real world.
>UNCONFIRMED #Tunisian #ISIS fighters leading a internal coup in #Raqqah against #Baghdadi due to #ISIS recent collapse in #Iraq & #Syria.
>Latest @UNCoISyria report finds temporary displacements carried out by #SDF or #YPG in northern #Syria were done so with military necessity
the ethnic cleansing meme has been put to rest
Although the ethnic cleansing bullshit has been propaganda for day one (The amnesty report itself never even makes this claim iirc), hopefully this means that it won't ever have to play in as a factor in diplomatic negotiations and later relations.
>It's up to whoever is in control. Power entitles you to decisions
Literally a bootlicker attitude. I find it hard you can be that spooked.
>Why shouldn't I or anyone be expected to at least be able to sustain ourselves?
That's not what this argument is about. It's about the legitimacy of murder and torture.
>Except we share different values.
So, you only need to be ethical if the only person holds the exact same ethics? What's the point then, why even have ethics?
>Collateral damage in warfare
Real collateral damage is an unfortunate side effect of war, and one reason why it's so harmful and is something the YPG does their best to avoid, unlike Turkey or Daesh; "collateral damage" i.e. killing dozens of civilians so you could get one "terrorist" is just a way to excuse murder because you're too lazy to prevent it.
As leftists something we're trying to end.
As leftists something we should be trying to end.
> Sometimes you need to cut of an arm to the save the body
Don't use euphemisms. You're saying sometimes it's necessary and good to murder people for "society". Logically if you're for that you should be willing to kill anyone, even innocent, if it could somehow benefit society.
>To put it bluntly? Yes. It's kill or be killed. They've made that pretty clear over the past fourteen centuries.
It's not kill or be killed when the person is a PoW or safely in prison.
>In many cases it's works pretty well
The West's wars in the ME against Islamic terrorism would say otherwise, or Turkey's war against the PKK.
>Except it's not about solving brutality and violence. It's about survival.
That sounds like something a Fascist would say. The SDF isn't solely concerned with survival, they're also concerned with creating a better world, that's the difference between them and the SAA.
>>another Human beings
Someone doesn't stop being human no matter what they've done or who they are. When you start ignoring that you become closer to the mindset that drives Daesh.
>Anyone who joins Daesh has, by that action, renounced to his human rights, imo
Not only does it not work like that, it's also completely disregarding why they join. They could be a conscript, a kid whose family was killed, a depressed, alienated man with nothing to lose who wants to become a suicide bomber, a person raised and surrounded by brutality and hate so much that it becomes an integral part of him. It's easy to ignore the people behind the masks and AKs, but if you ever want to make the world a better place and prevent people like this from existing, you can't fall into the same trap of dehumanizing and refusing to empathize.
Having to kill to defend yourself and others is not the same as deliberately murdering someone because you think they deserve it.
Those Arabs broke discipline. That's it. People have humanity by their ability to hate Daesh morons. it would honestly be more worrisome if people could suffer everything ISIS has done to them, and not want to torture them. Daesh are criminals, and deserve death, but if some SDF get a little too fervent and torture, I don't feel bad. Just fine them and re-station them somewhere else.
Yeah. You knows who's edgy? The person that cares about the survival of the one successful ongoing revolution on this planet.
You know who isn't? The adherents of an over one thousand year old sect that has repeatedly engaged in rampant acts of absolute barbarism, including mass rape and genocide.
Who's theorists have written libraries worth of advocating what is effectively the complete liquidation of most of the world population.
How entrenched are you in the liberal bubble? These aren't some edgy nazis on the internet who like to post helicopter jokes or fantasize about reenacting the Turner Diaries.
These aren't some ancaps that have read too much Atlas Shrugged and believe in the NAP.
These aren't some fundies that just think being gay is gross, we've lost our morals and that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
Their whole ideology from the onset is based upon the unconditional rampant slaughter of anyone they think doesn't conform with their ultra-specific-ultra-orthodox interpretation of Islam. And unlike some neckbeards on the internet these people actually act on their beliefs with great consistency.
These are the kind of people that killed the one of the first four caliphs (Ali) because he wasn't orthodox enough. Mind you, in Islam the first four caliphs after Muhammad are generally to be considered among the purest, pious and most noble human beings to have ever existed.
And they killed him.
There is no living in peace with these people. Ever.
>"from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"? sounds like some dumb shit to me lmao XDDD
Society doesn't work if not everyone pulls their own weight in some capacity. I fail to see how anyone can interpret that quote as "Free stuff for everyone, no work necessary!".
>AND EVEN THEN if you absolutely have to kill them, don't fucking tortue people. Just put a bullet through their head and get it over with.
Not going to disagree here. Torturing an unarmed person for no purpose is distasteful.
>Yeah, they should've just killed every german who supported the Nazi party or the regime in any way.
Except support for the Nazi party wasn't nearly as widespread and unanimous as often claimed. There's also a difference between being apathetic or a member of the Nazi party - which I don't recall openly advocating for genocide or the atrocities in the east - and being a member of the Einsatzgruppen, a death camp guard or fighting as a member of the SS in the east.
>Such a basic and childish utilitarianism. You're being called an edgelord because you display ethical understanding like that of a 14-yearold.
Except I don't even care about pretentious ethics. As I said before. It's about survival.
>That might justify imprisoning them at length and/or for life.
And waste resources? Do you know how much it would cost to imprison, guard and care for ten-thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands of people? If the choice is between feeding soldiers, workers, their families, and the scores of internally displaced persons or some foreign jihadi, then it's obvious which one to pick.
>So? You share different values with your neighbor. You share different values with your dog. You share different values with your own child. That doesn't justify treating them differently.
Except my aim is not to stuff you into a cage and burn you alive for my personal viewing pleasure. That's the difference.
>Also, don't make torture or murder out to be this hardnecked well concidered decision of realpolitik.
Torture often serves no purpose, but getting rid of people that actively plan and seek to kill you and almost everyone you love is a question of survival.
>What's going on in that video is not kill or be killed.
No. But assuming the person in the video is an actual ISIS fighter, make no mistake. If given the power over you, they would kill you, and they wouldn't think about it twice.
>This is not about survival. We're talking about murdering and/or torturing PoWs, which by definition is not about survival. None of us are talking about fighting a war in the general sense.
Torture? I tend to agree. People need to control themselves.
Killing PoWs? If those PoWs intend to dismantle and wipe out your society the moment they are set free, there's little benefit keeping them alive.
>Literally a bootlicker attitude. I find it hard you can be that spooked.
It's not a bootlicker attitude. It's realistic one. If you have no power or the means to defend yourself, your personal ethics mean very little when it comes to survival.
>So, you only need to be ethical if the only person holds the exact same ethics? What's the point then, why even have ethics?
I don't know. You tell me.
Besides. As I've pointed out earlier, this isn't about some civil differences in opinion. These are people that want to kill you in the most gruesome ways imaginable because you don't adhere to their particular brand of religion.
>As leftists something we're trying to end.
Not going to disagreeing here.
>As leftists something we should be trying to end.
If conscription, like in Rojava, means the difference between life and death of a socialist society, then I'm all for it.
>Don't use euphemisms. You're saying sometimes it's necessary and good to murder people for "society". Logically if you're for that you should be willing to kill anyone, even innocent, if it could somehow benefit society.
Except you seem to misinterpret my point. This isn't just about people that have difficulty keeping up, or people you happen to disagree with. This is about people that want burn society, you, and everyone you love in the name of religious fanaticism. And when given the chance that's exactly what they do.
>The West's wars in the ME against Islamic terrorism would say otherwise, or Turkey's war against the PKK.
The west's wars against Islamic terrorism are just wars of imperialism and subjugation. Their wars have created this enemy.
It's possible to win this war. The question is: How far are you willing to go?
>That sounds like something a Fascist would say. The SDF isn't solely concerned with survival, they're also concerned with creating a better world, that's the difference between them and the SAA.
And none of those goals matter anything if you won't survive.
Seriously. This thread feel like jews defending 1944 Germany.
This isn't about some minor disagreements, this is about real undeniable threats to both Rojava and civilization as a whole.
The nazi movement could have been crushed back in the 1920s, Hitler wrote so himself. But no one did, why? Because of the kind of liberal attitude displayed in this thread.
Like Hitler writing about invading Russia and removing the "undesirables", the people the SDF are fighting have made it clear again and again of what their goals are, and what they'll do once in power.
>The announcement of the formation of the Kurdish movement (NOT -PYD/YPG) in Syria. One of the main goals topple Bashar Assad's regime.
>crescent instead of star on Kurdish flag
THIS GROUP WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BE LE GRAND SULTAN ERDO
So the Kurdish Islamists from Liwa Ahfad al-Salahaddin are not enough?
There's quite a few Islamists and jihadi Kurds dispersed around the various rebel groups and ISIS yeah
Read a fucking boock. It's obvious that you know nothing of the ideology that governs the revolution. You might as well be one of the members of the liberal media swooning over "gurlpower". Restorative justice has proven more effective then punitive justice especially in cases of genocide, and your ignorant that you can't see beyond the most simplistic conception of justice as purely punitive. From each according to their ability, to each according to their need recognizes that some people will be incapable of providing much but those with ability will pick up the slack, to put it in simplistic terms that you can understand. Stop being a meme tier keyboard warrior "fighting for the revolution" and actually learn what it stands for first you fucking larper
>Wanting to defeat ISIS but not slaughter or torture captives like animals is the same thing as not wanting to defeat the Nazis
>All this liberalism
The offenders should be reprimanded and restationed for breaking discipline and mistreating a pow but I don't shed a single fucking tear for an ISIS rat. These fucking insane reactionaries are precisely what the revolutionary terror is for. I swear you faggots would be crying over Red Army troops killing SS guards at Auschwitz.
>Read a fucking boock
Follow your own advice. Read up about the Khajirite movement, the caliphates, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, Mohammed Abdul Salam Faraj, the history of Saudi Arabia, the writings of bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri and top it off with some ISIS blogs and some gore sites so you can see in visceral detail what ISIS does to unbelievers. Perhaps you'll even have the muh privilege I had to talk to some of these people.
>Restorative justice has proven more effective then punitive justice especially in cases of genocide
This is really what post-revolution Syria should spend it's resources on. Re-educating perhaps ten-thousands of foreign islamists that no, committing genocide and raping women is not okay. I mean, it's not like they were already taught that in their home countries!
>and your ignorant that you can't see beyond the most simplistic conception of justice as purely punitive.
This isn't about justice. This is about removing those elements who's only desire in life is to completely wreck society and kill almost everyone within it.
>From each according to their ability, to each according to their need recognizes that some people will be incapable of providing much but those with ability will pick up the slack, to put it in simplistic terms that you can understand.
Yes. Because that's not unlike what I've already been saying.
>Stop being a meme tier keyboard warrior "fighting for the revolution" and actually learn what it stands for first you fucking larper
I'm making a point against all the quasi-liberals here that think we should just be more tolerant to people that very obviously just want to kill us. And you know, want to add the "Kurdish Genocide of 201?" to the index of genocides.
I'm sorry if that's "larping" in your liberal fantasies.
My bad. I had completely forgotten about the great reconciliation of WW2. The one where all the nazi fanatics and war criminals were let off with a slap on the wrist and told to "please not do that again!".
Oh wait. That didn't happen. It's leadership was killed, as were most of it's stooges: Either killed on the battlefield, or executed afterwards and worked to death.
It's a shame really, if we only had been more tolerant back then, we wouldn't have had this resurgent global nazi movement that has since taken over Europe.
Oh wait, that didn't happen either.
Definitely understand the anger, but is it so wrong to just shoot the islamist bastards without torturing them?
>but is it so wrong to just shoot the islamist bastards without torturing them?
That was the point I made. Torturing people like this is hardly defensible, shooting ISIS militants on the other hand is not.
>Follow your own advice. Read up about the Khajirite movement, the caliphates, Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, Mohammed Abdul Salam Faraj, the history of Saudi Arabia, the writings of bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri and top it off with some ISIS blogs and some gore sites so you can see in visceral detail what ISIS does to unbelievers. Perhaps you'll even have the muh muh privilege I had to talk to some of these people.
Literally has nothing to do with communalism and the ethical and moral foundation it's built upon. To reject said foundation is to reject DemCon, and that's why you should stop larping on here and actually read the theory behind the movement.
>This is really what post-revolution Syria should spend it's resources on. Re-educating perhaps ten-thousands of foreign islamists that no, committing genocide and raping women is not okay. I mean, it's not like they were already taught that in their home countries!
And the way to change this is by committing massacres of people who support such things, right? Entirely ignoring the fact that many areas in syria, including Rojava, held similar sentiments among it's population, but their solution was not to commit acts of ethnic cleansing cause that's fucking retarded and counter productive to the aims of the revolution.
>This isn't about justice. This is about removing those elements who's only desire in life is to completely wreck society and kill almost everyone within it.
Incredibly simplistic thinking, looking at people as in a vacuum instead of as products of their environment. This logic has been used by fascists to justify slaughtering jews, gypsies, lumpens etc. It's the same logic ISIS adheres to in order to justify their own rape and slaughter of people.
>Yes. Because that's not unlike what I've already been saying.
No, because you don't seem to recognize that this takes into account that some people will be incapable of any productive work
>I'm making a point against all the quasi-liberals here that think we should just be more tolerant to people that very obviously just want to kill us. And you know, want to add the "Kurdish Genocide of 201?" to the index of genocides.
>I'm sorry if that's "larping" in your liberal fantasies.
Adhering to the ethical and moral framework of the revolution is not in any sense "liberal". If you told the YPG that you wanted to go over there with the intention of killing POWs, you would be rejected immediately and rightfully so. You are entirely a larper because you know nothing of the theory behind the revolution and yet pretend to speak for it. Not committing war crimes or crimes against humanity is not the same thing as not defending yourself or fighting against reactionary movements and ideologies.
Nazi POWs weren't slaughtered out of hand by the Allies, and the gulags of Russia are not something that should be replicated by any socialist society. I'll reiterate: Read a Fucking Book.
>Except I don't even care about pretentious ethics. As I said before. It's about survival.
Well, I hate to inform you then, but it seems like you're actually a rightist.
>And waste resources?
How are they wasted if it restores people and prevents the alternative of murder?
>but getting rid of people that actively plan and seek to kill you and almost everyone you love is a question of survival.
No, once they're prisoners it's not longer about survival since they are explicitly out of the war. Killing them isn't a question of survival at that point, it's simply a question of retribution or cynical, uncaring realpolitik.
>If given the power over you, they would kill you, and they wouldn't think about it twice.
Exactly why you shouldn't be like them.
>If those PoWs intend to dismantle and wipe out your society the moment they are set free, there's little benefit keeping them alive.
That's obviously why you don't free them if they're not rehabilitated. They're just people, not little machine men who's only purpose is to destroy. Change the material conditions that created them and sustain them, and you can change them.
>It's not a bootlicker attitude. It's realistic one.
You just said it's for the people in power to decide who lives and dies, because having power gives them that right. Not only is that a bootlicker attitude, it's an explicit "make-makes-right" Fascist attitude.
>I don't know. You tell me.
So that we can create a better society and live as better individuals. If survival is all you care about, then it seems like you'd have joined Daesh if you were in their occupied territory, since it would've been much better for your survival.
>These are people that want to kill you in the most gruesome ways imaginable because you don't adhere to their particular brand of religion.
I'm well aware of that. What is right doesn't stop being what is right just because the individual is especially bad and hated.
>If conscription, like in Rojava, means the difference between life and death of a socialist society, then I'm all for it.
What are you not for if it means it contributes to this shallow, utilitarian idea of "survival"? Forced labor camps, genocide, mass executions, mass looting? If a better world cannot or won't be created then why care about saving the current one?
>Except you seem to misinterpret my point.
Your point is it's okay to do anything as long as it benefits society, taken to the logical extreme that means it should to be okay to kill or mistreat anyone, including the innocent, if it somehow contributes to society.
>This is about people that want burn society, you, and everyone you love in the name of religious fanaticism. And when given the chance that's exactly what they do.
Yes, I know that. You don't need to keep repeating about how dangerous they are.
>It's possible to win this war. The question is: How far are you willing to go?
That's what all brutal dictators and organizations like to think. This isn't a war about Kurds or Arabs and their survival, this is a war about ideologies. Ideologies cannot be killed through killing all their adherents, it doesn't work that way. A better society cannot be created with the methods of the previous one.
>And none of those goals matter anything if you won't survive.
And if you're willing to do anything to survive then you'll never achieve those goals. Besides, this is an absurd false dichotomy since SDF have been perfectly capable of beating back Daesh without resorting to the barbaric tactics you're advocating.
>revolutionary terror is for
Revolutionary terrors are exactly what you get if you institute brutal and cruel punishments, and you'd have to be both historically ignorant and naive to think those terrors were only against "reactionaries".
>Literally has nothing to do with communalism and the ethical and moral foundation it's built upon.
>Reading up about what your enemies actually believe isn't relevant
This isn't just about DemCon or Communalism. It's about analyzing and realizing what our enemies believe, their history and what their goals are. And what kind of existential threat they represent to the socialist movement.
That is very relevant.
>And the way to change this is by committing massacres of people who support such things, right
Considering that you don't seem to grasp what these people actually believe and they've been doing now and in the past, I'm not really surprised that you believe these people should or can be tolerated.
>Entirely ignoring the fact that many areas in syria, including Rojava, held similar sentiments among it's population, but their solution was not to commit acts of ethnic cleansing cause that's fucking retarded and counter productive to the aims of the revolution.
No, but if you've kept up with developments in Syria it's clear that the YPG have already been evicting ISIS sympathizers. That might not be a clear cut case of ethnic cleansing, or the sort of saturation bombardment that the Baath regime has been enacting, but it's already obvious that these islamists are a threat to the revolution, the people of Rojava and YPG fighters.
>Incredibly simplistic thinking, looking at people as in a vacuum instead of as products of their environment. This logic has been used by fascists to justify slaughtering jews, gypsies, lumpens etc. It's the same logic ISIS adheres to in order to justify their own rape and slaughter of people.
>Comparing the slaughter of peaceful civilians that hold no violent views to those that that intend to kill billions of people and have already committed acts of genocide
Are we living in the same world?
>No, because you don't seem to recognize that this takes into account that some people will be incapable of any productive work
I already addressed that. If the community or the families of less-capable individuals can take care of their needs, then all is fine.
>Adhering to the ethical and moral framework of the revolution is not in any sense "liberal".
It is when you parrot the myth of inalienable rights and use it to defend people that both in actions and ideology seek to crush the revolution.
>f you told the YPG that you wanted to go over there with the intention of killing POWs, you would be rejected immediately and rightfully so.
Obviously. But as said, even the YPG realizes (or is beginning to realize?) that they just can't live under the same roof as people that want to kill them and their families.
>You are entirely a larper because you know nothing of the theory behind the revolution and yet pretend to speak for it.
Your idea of the "revolution" is some liberal fantasy were everyone holds hand and sings Kumbaya.
>Not committing war crimes or crimes against humanity is not the same thing as not defending yourself or fighting against reactionary movements and ideologies.
Ridding society of the likes of ISIS and it's sympathizers is not a crime against humanity, it's a revolutionary duty and a service to civilization.
How do you think you're going to defeat these Islamists? Through rational arguments and debate? They don't care about you, the revolution, your ideals, your ethics, or anything you believe in. The only thing that matters of them is that you're an unbeliever and need to die in the most excruciating way possible.
Your idea of defeating ISIS breaks down in the reality of the daily struggle in Syria.
>Well, I hate to inform you then, but it seems like you're actually a rightist.
>Using a liberal buzzword
>How are they wasted if it restores people and prevents the alternative of murder?
Look at how much resources are spend in the west on imprisoning and watching a few returning ISIS militants.
Rojava isn't a rich society. Even basic necessities like water and varied food are either expensive or difficult to get hold of.
They don't have the luxury to take care of ten-thousands of useless mouths that just want to kill them anyway, many of whom are also foreigners that otherwise would have no place in Syria and only came to destroy it.
Why is it so important to keep those people alive?
>No, once they're prisoners it's not longer about survival since they are explicitly out of the war. Killing them isn't a question of survival at that point, it's simply a question of retribution or cynical, uncaring realpolitik.
And again, who will take care of them at the expense of the swathes of homeless and orphaned refugees, or the families of martyrs, or just the everyday workers that are doing everything they can to keep Rojava running?
>Exactly why you shouldn't be like them.
What an amazing liberal attitude. "If you kill your enemies, they win!"
>That's obviously why you don't free them if they're not rehabilitated. They're just people, not little machine men who's only purpose is to destroy. Change the material conditions that created them and sustain them, and you can change them.
You do realize how many of these come from the west with its social security? Even Syria had a social safety net before the war.
Most of these people aren't coming from illiterate societies with no access to information.
Not everyone can be rehabilitated, post-WW2 nazis have shown plenty of examples of this. Which is exactly why so many of them had to die, because many were planning for a second run. It's the same thing here.
>So that we can create a better society and live as better individuals. If survival is all you care about, then it seems like you'd have joined Daesh if you were in their occupied territory, since it would've been much better for your survival.
Survival in this case is more about immediate physical survival. It's also about the survival of society and civilization itself. ISIS and its militants have spend a great amount of time not just killing people, but also dismantling the education system, burning libraries and wrecking the cultural heritage of mankind.
>What are you not for if it means it contributes to this shallow, utilitarian idea of "survival"? Forced labor camps, genocide, mass executions, mass looting? If a better world cannot or won't be created then why care about saving the current one?
See my above point.
>Your point is it's okay to do anything as long as it benefits society, taken to the logical extreme that means it should to be okay to kill or mistreat anyone, including the innocent, if it somehow contributes to society.
I already argued against that.
>Yes, I know that. You don't need to keep repeating about how dangerous they are.
The problem is it needs to be repeated because people like you don't seem to be interested in actually reading about the history of the movement your fighting or what it adherents believe in.
>That's what all brutal dictators and organizations like to think. This isn't a war about Kurds or Arabs and their survival, this is a war about ideologies. Ideologies cannot be killed through killing all their adherents, it doesn't work that way. A better society cannot be created with the methods of the previous one.
How many Manichaeans are there alive today? If you kill the adherents of an ideology and it tends to die out in practice.
>And if you're willing to do anything to survive then you'll never achieve those goals. Besides, this is an absurd false dichotomy since SDF have been perfectly capable of beating back Daesh without resorting to the barbaric tactics you're advocating.
See my previous point. ISIS sympathizers are already being evicted.
>This isn't just about DemCon or Communalism. It's about analyzing and realizing what our enemies believe, their history and what their goals are. And what kind of existential threat they represent to the socialist movement.
>That is very relevant.
Not at all relevant when considering the theoretical framework of DemCon, which you don't know but still pretend should be abandoned.
>Considering that you don't seem to grasp what these people actually believe and they've been doing now and in the past, I'm not really surprised that you believe these people should or can be tolerated.
I fully understand what they believe. That does not change the theoretical basis of DemCon, which is contingent on ethical practices. Not committing war crimes or crimes against humanity against them is not the same as tolerating them, and the fact that you can't see the difference does not speak well of you
>No, but if you've kept up with developments in Syria it's clear that the YPG have already been evicting ISIS sympathizers. That might not be a clear cut case of ethnic cleansing, or the sort of saturation bombardment that the Baath regime has been enacting, but it's already obvious that these islamists are a threat to the revolution, the people of Rojava and YPG fighters.
The sources for that have either been Turkish or Iraqi kurdish, so the reports of how often it happens are greatly exaggerated. Furthermore, the PYD and YPG recognized that instances when it did actually happened were wrong and should not be repeated, since doing so is considered to be ethnic cleansing
>Are we living in the same world?
Apparently not. The islamists believe the worlds problems are due to the kaffirs who prevent people from living in their ideal islamic utopia, and therefore should be violently subjugated. You think that the revolutions problems are people like the islamists who prevent people from living in an ideal socialist utopia, and therefore should be violently subjugated etc
>It is when you parrot the myth of inalienable rights and use it to defend people that both in actions and ideology seek to crush the revolution.
The democratic confederalist society is built upon a social contract which grants unalienable rights, and by it's nature takes certain things (like crimes against humanity/warcrimes) off the table. You're essentially saying that because these people are threatening the revolution we should destroy it ourselves by forsaking the most fundamental aspect of it i.e. the social contract.
>Obviously. But as said, even the YPG realizes (or is beginning to realize?) that they just can't live under the same roof as people that want to kill them and their families.
The DFSNS has made it very clear that the solution to captured POWs is not to execute or torture them, as evidenced by their increasing openness to outside observes to their prison practices, and this solution does not involve the breaking of the social contract or the breaking of international law
>Your idea of the "revolution" is some liberal fantasy were everyone holds hand and sings Kumbaya.
Your idea of the revolution is a reactionary hellscape were every man is in a vacuum, independent of the community, and fights only for himself. Not wanting to commit warcrimes or breaking the social contract is not the same as forsaking the right to self defense.
>Ridding society of the likes of ISIS and it's sympathizers is not a crime against humanity, it's a revolutionary duty and a service to civilization.
The execution of POWs is a most definite warcrime, and the DFSNS adheres to that plainly in it's social contract.Revolutionary duty and service means following the ethical system that the revolution seeks to build society around.
>How do you think you're going to defeat these Islamists? Through rational arguments and debate? They don't care about you, the revolution, your ideals, your ethics, or anything you believe in. The only thing that matters of them is that you're an unbeliever and need to die in the most excruciating way possible.
You defeat them through combat and superior organization and education, not through slaughtering POWs and sympathizers you retarded larper.
>>Using a liberal buzzword
You literally talk like a rightist. It has nothing to do with being a liberal.
>They don't have the luxury to take care of ten-thousands of useless mouths that just want to kill them anyway
They seem to be doing it just fine considering the prisons exist and there aren't reports of mass executions.
>Why is it so important to keep those people alive?
Why is it to keep anyone alive that's not necessary to your material self-interests? The answer is because I want to create a better world and be a better person.
>And again, who will take care of them at the expense of the swathes of homeless and orphaned refugees, or the families of martyrs, or just the everyday workers that are doing everything they can to keep Rojava running?
The same people who are doing it now. This isn't a hypothetical situation. The PoWs are being cared for and they're not being executed, and Rojava is still around.
>What an amazing liberal attitude.
What is it with violent, quasi-reactionaries pretending to be leftists calling ethical principles liberal? It's like /pol/tards and cuck.
>You do realize how many of these come from the west with its social security?
Material conditions mean more that just not being poor. It also refers to alienation, abuse, ignorance and so on. Also foreign fighters aren't the majority.
>Not everyone can be rehabilitated, post-WW2 nazis have shown plenty of examples of this
As far as I know, rehabilitation wasn't a real goal after WWII.
>It's also about the survival of society and civilization itself
If the Syrian society and civilization is all you care about, why not go join the SAA?
>but also dismantling the education system, burning libraries and wrecking the cultural heritage of mankind.
None of those are worth dying over and is not the reason why I have any desire to go over there to fight. Leftists care about the SDF because they're trying to change the Syria, not because they're trying to preserve the current system.
>I already argued against that.
No, you never explained how by taking your position to the logical extreme that it wouldn't be okay to harm innocents for the good of society.
>The problem is it needs to be repeated because people like you don't seem to be interested in actually reading about the history of the movement your fighting or what it adherents believe in.
None of that is relevant. The only beliefs that actually matter is the belief that it's okay to murder, rape, oppress others, and that belief is widely shared between Daesh, Nazis, African warlords and Mexican cartels. The solution isn't to murder every adherent of all these particular ideologies, but to change the circumstances that created people who belief in the single general belief and to rehabilitate those who currently do.
>How many Manichaeans are there alive today? If you kill the adherents of an ideology and it tends to die out in practice.
Like I said, a particular ideology is irrelevant. The esoteric and mystical beliefs of the Manichaens might be gone, but the practical beliefs and the people who practice them are still alive. You could hypothetically destroy radical Islam, but the people who would believe in it and who would go join Daesh would still be created until the circumstances are changed.
>ISIS sympathizers are already being evicted.
In rogue instances. This is not an established policy.
>The democratic confederalist society is built upon a social contract which grants unalienable rights, and by it's nature takes certain things (like crimes against humanity/warcrimes) off the table. You're essentially saying that because these people are threatening the revolution we should destroy it ourselves by forsaking the most fundamental aspect of it i.e. the social contract.
>Your idea of the revolution is a reactionary hellscape were every man is in a vacuum, independent of the community, and fights only for himself. Not wanting to commit warcrimes or breaking the social contract is not the same as forsaking the right to self defense.
>The execution of POWs is a most definite warcrime, and the DFSNS adheres to that plainly in it's social contract.Revolutionary duty and service means following the ethical system that the revolution seeks to build society around.
The Rojavan social contract is not the same as liberal natural inalienable rights. It's based on consent and mutual agreement. A property not shared with its omnicidal Islamist enemies.
>They seem to be doing it just fine considering the prisons exist and there aren't reports of mass executions.
Do those prisons have the capacity to hold hundreds of thousands of ISIS militants and sympathizers? Or what else are you going to do with this obviously dangerous segment of society? Are you going to endow them too with their own territory and right to own guns? Or will you just keep them around as second class citizens?
>Material conditions mean more that just not being poor. It also refers to alienation, abuse, ignorance and so on. Also foreign fighters aren't the majority.
Many of it's ideologues, commanders and emirs were part of the elite upper class. Likewise plenty of its foreign fighters came from well-off countries or even backgrounds. There are reasons other than poverty and alienation that turn people into genocidal militants.
Likewise, there a plenty of Syrians and Iraqis - a majority in fact - that have not turned to ISIS, including those who have suffered under the Baath regimes and the Iraqi wars and occupation. It's also already been proven that that there exists a certain natural predisposition in certain people towards both violence and the sort of ideologies represented by ISIS.
You seem to want to save these islamists at all cost. I ask, at who's cost, and what's the benefit?
>If the Syrian society and civilization is all you care about, why not go join the SAA?
>None of those are worth dying over and is not the reason why I have any desire to go over there to fight. Leftists care about the SDF because they're trying to change the Syria, not because they're trying to preserve the current system.
Except it isn't just about some old books or statues. Civilization is more than that. It's science, philosophy, culture, the knowledge of past history and an artistic heritage that stretches back aeons.
Go tell the Kurds or Syriacs in Rojava that their culture doesn't matter, isn't worth saving, and if it were to be destroyed, there's no point crying over it.
>None of that is relevant. The only beliefs that actually matter is the belief that it's okay to murder, rape, oppress others, and that belief is widely shared between Daesh, Nazis, African warlords and Mexican cartels. The solution isn't to murder every adherent of all these particular ideologies, but to change the circumstances that created people who belief in the single general belief and to rehabilitate those who currently do.
Except the time for prevention is before the war has already started. Changing the material conditions now will do little for people who have already given their lives for a genocidal cause.
>Like I said, a particular ideology is irrelevant. The esoteric and mystical beliefs of the Manichaens might be gone, but the practical beliefs and the people who practice them are still alive. You could hypothetically destroy radical Islam, but the people who would believe in it and who would go join Daesh would still be created until the circumstances are changed.
Ideologies may rise again. But it's much harder if it's most vocal proponents are buried five feet underground and its dissemination is heavily restricted.
And in case of salafists/khawarij/wahabists purging that particular ideology is long overdue.
Either way I still hope you're right, and that this time will finally prove to be the exception on the rule. That the Islamists won't just come back in a few years to stab the revolution in the back.
But knowing history, I'm not very optimistic.
>1) Bad news from #Sinjar: #Peshmerga Rojava have fired upon unarmed civilian demonstrators, killing several, including a #Yazidi teen girl.
It's time for the YPG to crack some RojPesh skulls
Incidents like this make me appreciate the YPG track record even more.
Why would they do that? They aren't even occupying any cities and towns are they? So basically a foreign gang shot civilians telling them to fuck off? How do they think this will possibly go well with the YBS?
>mfw RojPesh gets into a war with YBS and gets backup from the KDP while the YBS gets backup from the YPG
>mfw this causes a civil war in Iraqi Kurdistan
>mfw DemCon spreads to Iraq
DemConfed is already in the YBS controlled areas of Iraq. Turkey has about 40 military bases all over KDP controlled KRG so I don't think it'll ever spread there.
YBS controlled Sinjar offers an ally and partner to Rojava and undermines the KDP blockade. Barzani and Erdogan are trying to elimanage YBS' presence so they can seal off Rojava fully. YBS and PKK will definitely respond, and maybe YPG too.
>DemCon spreads to Iraq
Stop anon. I can only get so hard.
>Turkey has about 40 military bases all over KDP controlled KRG so I don't think it'll ever spread there.
Turkish threats, intervention and airstrikes haven't stopped demcon from flourishing in Rojava.
Besides. I don't see the local Kurdish population in Iraqi Kurdistan reacting positively to the Turkish army killing Kurds. No matter how Barzani would spin it.
Hey, i just wanted to see if there is a limit to how large images you can post.
The Kurdistan Democratic Confederacy has gone from technicals and CNT trucks to BTRs and the Turks are SCARED.
Also Ivan Sidorenko is the guy that got /pol/ to crowdsource an airstrike location.
I'm imagining Phil Greaves right now frothing at the mouth, having both a seizure and a stroke at the same time.
Erdogan is a loose cannon. It's understandable that the Russian gov would prefer to keep Syria in one piece rather than surrender it to that wannabe dictator.
I still think the Russians want the entirety of Kurdistan to become a reality, since Turkey is in such an important strategic position for them. Russia is also relatively friendly towards socialists and doesn't see them as an existential threat, unlike other major powers.
That's a generous reading. Russia needs to keep the Sultanate in check, as well as US puppets like the KRG. Currying favour with the PYD is necessary to keeping Assad, Erdogan, as well as Barzani and the rest of Iraq - even Iran - off each others back for the next decade. Russia needs Turkey to be kept as docile as possible, carrots for now, sticks again when the need (invariably) arises.
>The Rojavan social contract is not the same as liberal natural inalienable rights. It's based on consent and mutual agreement. A property not shared with its omnicidal Islamist enemies.
The Rojava social contract clearly states it's belief in the geneva conventions and the UN charter of human rights. You're talking out of your ass, but that's not surprising considering you've been doing just that this entire time.
>Do those prisons have the capacity to hold hundreds of thousands of ISIS militants and sympathizers? Or what else are you going to do with this obviously dangerous segment of society? Are you going to endow them too with their own territory and right to own guns? Or will you just keep them around as second class citizens?
Again, you're pretty much saying that they should commit genocide against anyone who supports ISIS. Fascism tier m8
The rest of your post is reactionary hogwash. You're merely a fascist pretending to be a socialist
Is anyone else worried that the recent cooperation and deepening ties(not just the buffer zone but also some stuff seems to happen with Manbij city and Tishreen dam) with the Regime might be to early and somewhat foolish? I have trust that the PYD and the canton administrations know what they are doing but I doubt that the revolution is rooted deeply enough yet that it wouldnt suffer under returning Regime influence.
There's definitely going to be a power struggle between the two. I seriously hope they don't make the same mistake the spanish anarchists did
Yeah it's concerning but it's the regime is something they've got to face up to sooner or later. In a perfect world SDF would be FSA and they'd be overthrowing Assad but unfortunately they'll have to make some concessions because Assad is too strong.
I'll put my trust in PYD because they've balanced practicality with idealism extremely well so far.
An agreement I wouldn't be against is the Hasakah model all across Rojava (i.e. PYD and councils controls 90% of the city but the regime control some of the official or administrative buildings and flies their flag over them).
>The Rojava social contract clearly states it's belief in the geneva conventions and the UN charter of human rights. You're talking out of your ass, but that's not surprising considering you've been doing just that this entire time.
Yeah, no idea why I missed that. Massive brainfart on my part. Forget my earlier points. Please don't purge me
>Again, you're pretty much saying that they should commit genocide against anyone who supports ISIS. Fascism tier m8
>The rest of your post is reactionary hogwash. You're merely a fascist pretending to be a socialist
Without repeating the same points again, I'll just say I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, and hope that this time thing will turn out differently. I pushed it to an extreme. There are militants that are trying to defect after realizing what mistake they made. Though joining an organization like ISIS even in face of proof of atrocities is still absolutely fucking disgusting.
Again, I hope this time will be different from all those other times where people have tried rehabilitating hardcore islamists. And I'm not planning against going against the agreed upon charter and ideology (Like the undisciplined people in that video), even if I disagree with some of its premises.
>Is anyone else worried that the recent cooperation and deepening ties(not just the buffer zone but also some stuff seems to happen with Manbij city and Tishreen dam) with the Regime might be to early and somewhat foolish? I have trust that the PYD and the canton administrations know what they are doing but I doubt that the revolution is rooted deeply enough yet that it wouldnt suffer under returning Regime influence.
Not at all. It's important to mend differences and move towards reconciliation before ISIS and the "moderates" are defeated, to prevent future open conflict between the regime and the federation.
The federation controls will soon control over 50% of the Syrian GNP (the regime is kept running by Russian and Iranian loans), when taking into account the ISIS territories like Raqqa and Deiz er Nor that will soon fall to it.
Notice how Assad is treading very carefully in relation to Rojava. He's not up against the incompetent Free Syrian Army or the unpopular ISIS anymore. The SDF/YPG is the only rebel faction that could unilaterally balkanize Syria and take all of its oil & gas wealth with it.
In my wet dreams we have DemConFed spreading throughout Syria offering alternatives to the warlords and clans till they take over all of Syria once conflict erupts again. Their organisation is getting only stronger and seems to be the only coherent well organised ideological group that can offer an alternative. So maybe dual power can actually work once you have established a base and have an apperatus of cadres dedicated to spreading it.
Most of the gas is around Hama and Palmyra controlled by ISIS and soon only Assad, Rojava mostly controlls the oil, hydro energy and a lot of the food supply.
>DemConFed spreading throughout Syria
It'll be tough with Turkey and the blockade tho. Turks are probably the biggest threat to Rojava. Assad and the SAA aren't as strong as they appear - they're very factionalized and only survived total collapse because of Russia + Iran
Dem Confederalism can still be spread under the nose of the regime. Much of the reason PYD was so well placed at the start of the civil war was due to their underground organising before it. After the uprising in Qamishlo got crushed PYD had to organise secretly. FSA didn't have this kind of ideological base and structure and fractured into a million pieces. Imagine if the rebels could've organise their parts of Aleppo like YPG organised Sheikh Maqsoud
are there any accounts of how things are operating on the ground? I hear people talk about different practices in different places but don't know where I'd be able to read about all that stuff.
I'm glad it's not just me and that one other guy calling this shit out. Reactionary beliefs are already rampant throughout the online tankie-left. We don't need it in the libertarian left as well.
The problem I see is that, just like in every other historical situation of intranational fights for autonomy, it comes down to the state's monopoly on violence. Any modern state (liberal or aliberal) is precipitated on the monopoly of violence, which goes against having an entire autonomous zone with no hierarchical control of the monopoly on violence. Assad can't give up this monopoly. It would practically mean the same as him being deposed as leader of Syria.
This means that for him to actually make that concession, YPG needs a stronger force of violence backing them, e.g. the US or Russia, but that just results in even bigger imperialist tensions than in Iraq.
>Again, I hope this time will be different from all those other times where people have tried rehabilitating hardcore islamists.
I'm glad that you're at the very least able to see that accepting inhuman treatment of daesh is a compromise.
With regards to the successrate of rehabilitation, again I'm of the opinion that torture and murder can never be justified in situations where you have the reasonable ability to do otherwise, and that a cost-benefit analysis should never factor in when dealing with human lives. Meaning that the effectiveness of rehabilitation shouldn't play in, as long as:
1. The effectiveness is non-zero (which trivially is the case).
2. You have the reasonable ability to do so (which trivially is the case of PoWs).
>when taking into account the ISIS territories like Raqqa and Deiz er Nor that will soon fall to it.
Do you think that the SDF will keep control of these territories? Never mind in a eventual peace deal, but just for the forseeable future?
My understanding was that the SDF is just being used as the troops to beat back ISIS. SDF's current tactic of reconciliation towards the regime, along with large majority arab populations makes it seem likely in my head that SDF will cede Raqqa and/or Deiz er Nor to the regime within the near-future. Am I completely off-base here?
A Military council and a civilian administrative council will be formed before SDF take Raqqa and after they take it the civilian council will be asked if they want to join the Rojava project, which they will likely accept. SDF do this process for every major destination they take. The idea of trading off cities is something SDF won't do but I think the civilian administration will have a large degree of autonomy in how they define their relationship with the regime. Raqqa was a revolution hotbed so I can't see them being too pro Assad
Assad allready gave up his monopoly of violence to loads of independent militias and Rojava allready created the militias of the communes. I seriously doubt that Syria will have a unified force anytime soon.
Anyone see that documentary "Inside Assad's Syria" that Vice made recently? It's a good watch if you haven't.
>Assad allready gave up his monopoly of violence to loads of independent militias
Those militias are still hierarchically subservient to the Assad regime. Saying that that is equivalent to letting go of the monopoly on violence, is like saying having a distinct police force is letting go of the monopoly on violence.
Fact of the matter is that if one of those independent militias decided to oppose the regime in some way, they would cease to be an authorized militia and become an enemy of the state. Which is the position of the SDF as of right now. It just happens that the state has higher priority enemies than the SDF.
>I seriously doubt that Syria will have a unified force anytime soon.
Of course, that's why the war is going on. The question is what happens when the war is over?
Can the war be said to be over if there's a completely independent military force with interests in opposition to the interests of the regime?
As long as Assad insists on being the leader of an (a)liberal state power, I think the answer is no.
DFNS autonomy requires significant state reform.
Assad's personal future post war is unclear. I think Russia want him to leave whereas Iran are insistent on him staying.
the subtle Iran/Russia powerplay is interesting to watch as it becomes clear that SAA will win
>There was also a thin layer of urban workers, employed in small and medium-sized businesses. According to local residents, many rich people fled at the beginning of the war, but some of them remained in Rojava. Apparently, those who stayed are now the active supporters of the parties in favour of Barzani [the neo-liberal leader of Iraqi Kurdistan].
really makes you think
That reminds me of rabid McCarthyists who go "HAVE YOU EVER SPOKEN TO SOMEBODY WHO FLED FROM CUBA ON A RAFT?", ignoring that most of the people who fled to florida were the wealthy supporters of Batista, and that a significant portion of them just sailed over into the open arms of the US government in their private boats.
>The economic embargo of the Kurdish cantons is carried out by Turkey and the Barzani clan of Iraqi Kurdistan acting in collusion. It’s naive to think that any kind of admonition from outsiders could make these two allies open the gates to let economic help through to Rojava. The only way out of this is a regional revolution. The Kurdish self-defence forces are already fighting de-facto against the Turkish army in the south-east of Turkey. The Kurds number several million in Turkey─this is a huge human resource pool for Rojava and Erdogan understands this perfectly. In order to crush the Kurdish autonomy project in Syria, he uses systematic terror to “clean the hinterland”. In Iraqi Kurdistan the masses are not politicised by the PKK, they look to the bourgeois-tribal system of the Democratic Party of Kurdistan instead. The example of Shengal shows that Rojava can receive help from Iraq. The Kurds of Rojava stress that democratic confederalism can be a model for the whole of Syrian society . Self-isolation for Rojava will mean death; the expansion of the social revolution to include the rest of Syria and Turkish Kurdistan means life.
>Today, Rojava resembles an injured lion which is chased by a pack of hyenas. The lion has little chances to win, but it will fight to the last breath.
Turkey and especially Barzani can never be forgiven for this embargo. Anyway as the article the spread of the ideology is a niceity as well as a necessity. YBS fighting against RojPesh is an integral battle in the spread of democratic confederalism.
Many of these assad militias are more like legalised private fiefdoms that fund themselves through smuggling and exortion.
YBS protected regions are the only border regions that isnt closed to Rojava so protecting that till a connection with the Iraqi government forces can be established is crucial to flee the economic blockade. So its not only an ideological fight.
tfw in a few decades people will point to rojava as another failed socialist experiment without knowing the crippling circumstances it was put under
>land was declared to be under common ownership — but the land of big landlords has not been expropriated because the movement ‘does not want to use force’
Weak tbh. But how big a deal is it? How much of the economy is nominally owned by 'big landlords'?
>Today, Rojava resembles an injured lion which is chased by a pack of hyenas. The lion has little chances to win, but it will fight to the last breath.
Are they right? Might Russia not have an interest in keeping in going?
Hasn't that always been the case for our cause?
>How much of the economy is nominally owned by 'big landlords'?
3/4 socialised, 1/4 private i think.
And the private is all big landlords?
No, I think they have a cement factory for example which is privately owned by some company and there's probably some other examples like that.
Yeah Trotsky was fucking right about international revolution tbh
I can't wait for that corrupt sleazebag Barzani to be
executed exiled during an Iraqi Kurdish demcon insurrection.
If Rojava wants to survive it needs to be willing to go after Barzani, his allies and their interests if he doesn't lift the blockade. Hurt their bottomline, target the businesses.
Rojava memes are the dankest
Today the Syrian Civil War enters its 6th year.
It's humbling to realize how fast decades or hundreds of years of progress can be torn down in a matter of months and years.
Rojava might just be the thing that makes this entire mess worth it.
>Rojava might just be the thing that makes this entire mess worth it.
no, nothing is worth it. I like Rojava, but the Syrian conflict is far too much of a tragedy.
yeah true. Arab Spring was a mistake.
If it's of any consolation, if this happens, at least we witnessed it and can directly point this out
That's the price for freedom. And it is worth it in the end.
>he supports a neo-liberal
>implying it is not arab chauvinism, nepotism, corruption and little amount of welfare to some part of population so they don't glorious uprising
So, uh, PPG hasn't updated in a while..
is he okay
>Are they right?
Their conclusions are already outdated because SDF has linked up with regime territories in North Aleppo and this will be a huge boost to the economy in Rojava and will present them with a lot more possibilities
PPP's twitter operates on a pattern of intense posting for a few days (probably when he's behind the frontline and can get Internet) and then weeks of silence so I'd say he's probably fine.
I do wonder if he'll stick around for the battle of Raqqa or if he'll leave before it
he said he'd be leaving in a few months on chapo, which is fair enough. he's done his bit, and now he come return to the usa where he will inevitably be held in some detention center until the feds decide what to charge him with
>HPG claim that 12 Turkish soldiers were killed and 2 guerrillas were martyred in clashes in Ağrı and Hakkari (ANF)
PKK after the winter hibernation now starting to get back into the swing of things.
So it seems like a new purge is ongoing against the KPD-S probably because of KDP attacks against the YBS. Which means that a lot of propaganda will fly around about how evil the PYD is. Some points regarding that:
>The news is often fake and mixes up revolutionary youth wich attacks offices, with Asayish raids, with Martyrs association people that attack KDP-S or just makes stuff straight up
>KPD-S doesnt work within the system at all, they dont get registered as a party and such are an illegal operation
>KDP-S demonstrations never get permission so Asayish often stops them(you have to get permission for demonstrations in all places, especially during wartime this is necessary to maintain security)
Besides that KDP-S are ofc counterrevolutionaries that work together with nations and forces which directly attack Rojava and its allies. All the pro-rebel journalists that whine about PYD wouldnt even dare to go to rebel held areas and neither KDP-S or PYD would be even able to open offices in rebel areas.
Anyone got any good articles that explain Rojava in a simple and neutral manner? Im writing a short report on the revolution for a thing.
Seems like PPG is active again
There are no neutral reports, and the ones that try to be neutral miss the whole revolutionary thing and dont go indepth at all or even include anti Rojava propaganda in an attempt to appear neutral. The positive ones are written by lefties that give a more complete picture but include pro-Rojava propaganda. And the negative ones are written by Turks, buthurt Barzani kurds, or buthurt rebel supporters.
ok then. Anyone just got any good articles?
Dank pics incoming
In truth KNC have only been given such leeway because the're Kurds. It's time they're kicked out, and for their own good because the population in Rojava are getting increasingly violent towards them.
>The Kurdish National Council (KNC, Kurdish: Encûmena Niştimanî ya Kurdî li Sûriyê, ENKS; Arabic: Al-Majlis Al-Watani Al-Kurdi) is a Syrian Kurdish political organization funded by the President of Iraqi Kurdistan Masoud Barzani and Turkey in the Syrian Civil War.
keeping up with all the Kurdish political acronyms is one of life's greatest struggles
Anyone else astounded by the amount of bullshit social media fights that happens between volunteers(mostly unpolitical americans). Constant bullshitting about how much one fought and other random accusations. I especially get triggered when they shit on the politicals, which in general are the better volunteers(although there are fewer with military background) according the few people that I have talked with that actually have a clue. Another trend seems to be that unpolitical americans seem to be hell bend on getting together in their own little units where they start shit while the people that integrate into a normal Kurdish tabur seem way less drama prone.
Even heard that they are going to dispand the TMU around all the drama that happend.
How many of them? There are at least a few hundred foreigners who have served in the YPG, I doubt it's representative. Also you have to consider that volunteering for service in a foreign war is a very abnormal thing to do so there are bound to be some oddballs.
I've never seen inter-volunteer drama.
pkk1978 said leftists make better volunteers and I'd take his word for it above some exmil American fag
please post links or screenshots, this is the first i've heard
Part of the essence of demcon is teaching fighters what they're fighting for.
It seems there are more than a few that join just because they want to shoot muslims.
Daily reminder: If you're going to Rojava, learn Kurdish. That way there's a higher chance you don't end up in unideological foreign units.
That's odd. You'd think ex mil people would have more discipline.
Though I imagine the leftists have more motivation and more modesty.
interview with a British volunteer who initially went to fight ISIS and then later come back for the revolution and the ideology
Yeah there is some weird ex-volunteer "scene" full of americans and anglos from unpolitical or military backgrounds that openly shit on each other on FB and twitter. Its not representative but they are the most vocal on social media(and the ones that accused other the most of being attention seekers). Political people like PPG that are active on social media are the minority. And I know of barely any european political volunteers that are active on social media.
Man TMU is sorrounded by so much drama, then there was that fast response unit that had a coupple of captured humvees that had a lot of americans and drama in it. And some other foreigner only units that split or something.
One of the ex-TMU guys had like a 35min rant video on his FB where he whined about the politicals and other grieviances that I cant judge. Then there was some other guy(his social media seemed attention seeking and narcicistic) that evedently was in Rojava but someone else accused him of misappropriating funds and never have been in Rojava. I feel like every public volunteer has been accused of not fighting. For a long time IFB was accused of sitting around in Qamishli and just doing nothing all day while /u/pkk1978 actually praised the MLKP guys of being awesome people and fighters and defended them.
Pic related is another case of some volunteer at home that was in some foreign only unit shitting on Cihan, a german autonomous antifa guy who went to Rojava more than two years ago(iirc) never appeared in the media except in one or two interviews with leftists media. He commanded a unit in some silos near Sarrin and was filmed doing that by Vice. He actually adopted the ideology and is cadre now. Rumors speculated that he might get a Tabur to command and then seemed involved with the academy for foreigners.
Just today Macer Gifford had some fight about funds allocation with the TMU with someone else, he deleted the tweets though. And I didnt actually see the conversation.
It would take years to learn Kurdish to the level required without being among Kurds. The war would probably be over by the time you managed it.
I think many ex-miliitary guys cant fuction without the hierachical discipline of the military and cant deal with Kurds doing it their own way(admittedly they often do unessecary stuff that ex-mil people actually know better)
This, dont get entangled in drama and learn kurdish if you go over.
Kurdish is an easy language and quite many learn it fast enough to be fluent after a year or less. From videos it seems like you only need a very basic grasp till they let you fight in Kurdish units.
>Learning languages takes years
No. But it does take effort. Besides you just need to build up a vocabulary and expand from there by talking with Kurdish speakers.
Part of it is them not integrating into the philosophy (the communal lifestyle is enforce in taburs) and learning the language. I suppose another aspect might be military guys expecting too much from a militia.
I think Peshmerga was far more popular with exmil guys tho. They're a far more traditional and well stacked outfit.
>From videos it seems like you only need a very basic grasp till they let you fight in Kurdish units.
I don't think it would be a good idea to do that. Would you really want to be in a unit where you have to worry about making yourself understood? Imagine if you're pissing yourself with fear and the stress causes you to forget the Kurdish words. Fuck that, man.
When you're doing it from books it does.
That's why don't do it just from the books. Learn the basics, then try to read some Kurdish stuff. News, speeches, interviews, try and see if you can follow it.
It helps even better if you can find someone to practice with. If you live in western and Northern Europe you can look up Kurdish organizations.
this vid is kinda long but it's a good example of a guy using his (what seems like) limited kurdish in an efficient way in high stress situations
In the end many left quite disappointed because Peshmerga rarely let people to the front and even then Peshmerga didnt do advances. I dont think they accept new volunteers nowadays, not worth the hassle for them.
Yeah, undestandable fear. But you learn quite quickly in such an enviroment. And there are probably also there are probably some good groups of non idiotic volunteers.
Yeah following all of them allready, didnt knew that Jesper is political though.
Antifa "tabur" is probably a group of foreign leftist given their name, totally forgot about them.
IFB radicalising the kids.
A few days ago some Turkish politician or journalist or someone called Turks in Europe frontline soldiers in old ottoman tongue
Anyone have a link?
the guys who tortured the ISIS fighter have been arrested
Anyone has a clue on whats behind the raid on the ADO offices? Maybe trying to force dominance for their pro DemConFed Assyrian allies instead of a more traditional party?
Bit of a fucking stretch though isn't it? Getting a few digs in the ribs and slapped in the face is better than how police in the first world treat people.
ADO are SNC (FSA) affiliates and thus advocate overthrowing the self government system by force. Same with KNC. Your not an innocent opposition party if you have an armed wing insistent on overthrowing the self government system, sorry. If Euphrates Shield marched into Manbij tomorrow, KNC and ADO would welcome them.
The reason given for the raid was the same reason given for the raid on Yekiti offices yesterday. A declaration was made that all political parties must sign up for a license to make their status official. Parties who didn't sign up for a license would be brought under the protection of Asayish. Parties who didn't sign up for the license within the allotted timeframe would be shut down to protect them from vandal attacks.
KNC offices repeatedly get torched and broken into. And yet they rejected the protection of Asayish and didn't apply for a license. Because their only goal as a party is to oppose anything TEV DEM or PYD do.
People can say it's totalitarian or undemocratic but it's what's necessary. In Rojava a new type of system is being built and parties who absolutely refuse to take part are not welcome.
There's dozens of parties in Rojava, many of them aren't democratic confederalists. But they recognise the legitimacy of the revolution and work within the system.
>Parties who didn't sign up for a license would be brought under the protection of Asayish.
Hanging someone by his arms in this way is extremely painful after a while, they did use that a lot on Guantanamo and its a quite common thing to use in torture overall.
Palistinian hanging is torture in every definition of the word, both legally and cordially.
Honstly that sucks. You shouldn't need a fucking licence in order to have the protection of the police/people from vandals.
rojava has been turned into a puppet state by america
it was fun boys
Feels more like PKK infiltators took over the US military
The Halabja Massacre took place in Iraqi Kurdistan, my dude.
KRG and the US have always been strong allies.
kinda strange that they use the twitterkurds hasthtag tho kek
Could be someone being stupid or someone subtly going rogue.
pretty sure whoever runs the CENTCOM account is a subtle troll. At the height of the Manbij tensions they were posting pics of YPJ with the caption "ready to fight" lmao, the Turks were going mental
Yup, all of a sudden posts if the MMC were left and right. It was as hilarious as proxy war tensions can get.
Does anyone have any interviews with former soldiers who are now in the SDF talking about the differences between the SDF and a regular army? Stuff like the tactics, equipment, culture, etc.
International Freedom Batallion Video AMA live from Raqqa Front
looks like the power went out :7(
Lets hope they're not being attacked.
Raqqa begins early April. Get hype. YPG spokesman seems really chill about it and thinks it'll be done in a few weeks.
>I will have to leave soon or I will never be in time for Raqqa.
Ehh. I doubt that. Mosul took months and that involved ISIS retreating a majority of their forces.
I also hope they've been stocking up on gas masks.
power went out again, they probably wont be back this time i guess
You will never be in time for Raqqa even if you leave soon, you'd spend longer in training/ideology lessons
you won't make it in time for raqqa m8 i'm sorry
>mfw there are smuggled black market nukes in Raqqa
>mfw they detonate them when as many troops as possible are in the city
>mfw it'll be just like my vidya games
Well I think it was the low battery on the laptop. But they are on night guard duty now anyways so they are not coming back tonight.
I'm afraid they'll have toxic gas of some sort.
So what happens after Raqqa and Mosul? Will ISIS fold?
>a few weeks
The article has a US source saying it'll take much longer.
>you'd spend longer in training/ideology lessons
How long does that take?
they'll double down on taking Deir Ezzor and they also have a few cities in Iraq left to defend
once these are taken too ISIS will just go underground and wait for another power vacuum to exploit. ISIS has been around since the Iraq war and people thought they were finished after they were defeated back then too
>tfw you weren't there soon enough to take the Daesh capital city and reenact the Reichstags flag meme picture
>tfw you weren't there soon enough to see DemCon spread throughout Syria
>mfw you'll be there just in time to fight the Neo-Ottoman Empire
>mfw you'll be there just in time to fight in the ME theater of WWIII
>they'll double down on taking Deir Ezzor and they also have a few cities in Iraq left to defend
Those places aren't on the SDF's front, are they? Where does the YPG go from Raqqa?
Well… at least there will still be the defense of Manbji, Deiz ez Zor and purging the Turks from Northern Syria.
It's almost guaranteed at this point. They found lot's of precursors in Mosul, but it isn't clear where the ready-to-use chemicals went.
I'm worried they decided to save that for Raqqa knowing that the Iraqi's would have plenty of NBC equipment for capturing Mosul.
Well this gives me hope.
I really hate having been ill for such a long time. (Anti-vaccers needs to be purged)
SDF have some ambitions for Deir Ezzor too. They've created a Deir Ezzor military council.
After Raqqa and DeZ I think it's a question of consolidating gains and building a semi peaceful life again. and of course be on guard against the turkish menace.
Deir ez Zor. Which comes with the added benefit of substantial oil and gas fields, and a much stronger leverage position vis-a-vis Syrian government.
>consolidating gains and building a semi peaceful life again. and of course be on guard against the turkish menace.
Not with the Turkish islamist cancer among their midst. Once the ISIS strongholds have been liberated I can see the conflict flowing over into Turkey.
It's impossible to build a "semi-peaceful" existence with Turkish jets bombing you all the time. And the Sultan has already stated he won't tolerate any form of Kurdish state or autonomy.
And then there's Barzani and the conflict between the KDP and PYD.
>And then there's Barzani and the conflict between the KDP and PYD.
yeah you could probably be sent to Sinjar to fight with YPG and YBS against Rojpesh if you go over soon enough
>you will never chill out atop a building in Raqqa immediately after it's liberated with your Kurdish hevals, drinking tea and telling jokes as the sun sets on a beautiful day
What's stopping you from going?
I think he means Raqqa will be captured before new recruits can get there.
(Article from last year)
I really hope they're careful when attempting this, and have plenty of Atropine. From the looks of it they will also attack from one side.
On the other hand, only one river bank already makes it a bit easier than Mosul.
Mosul is also many times bigger. Raqqa will be much easier, but not easy of course.
the SDF also has less men, money and arms than the Iraqi Army
Few months I think
Definitely more than A Month though which is what you'd need in order to take part in Raqqa
SSNP are running training camps in Australia lmao. YPG need to set up some training camps abroad.
lol can you imagine how ballistic the Turks would go if there were foreign training camps for the YPG in Europe and America?
The minimum commitment from volunteers is 6 months, which seems inappropriately short if training takes up several months.
Russian soldiers have apparently visited Afrin canton. Hopefully, this deter Turks and their proxies after their Manbij push failed
Afrin's always had the best relations with russia and the regime of all the cantons. hopefully the russians give em some weapons.
It's official now. They're cracking down on the KNC.
On the one hand, I don't like the idea of banning the largest opposition party, but then again:
“A major difference between the PYD and the Syrian allies of the KDP is their attitude towards the Arab population in Rojava. The KDP current says: "Those people have been brought here as part of an Arabization policy of the Baath-regime and they need to leave, even if they have been here for generations.” The PYD says that everybody who now lives in Rojava should be involved in building a new society.”
Yeah fuck KDP and it's tentacles. They're literally promoting ethnic cleansing.
>Yeah fuck KDP and it's tentacles. They're literally promoting ethnic cleansing.
Well yeah, fuck those guys then.
Man, what the fuck. This party was going great and then they had to go and ruin it.
I don't know, this seems like a pretty shitty move from the PYD.
I haven't really seen the argument for why this was necessary. I get that these people have some pretty sick views of Arabs and their role in the future of northern Syria, but as long as it's just that - people in a party with shitty views - I don't see the need to demand registration and then - KNC failing to register - apprehending them on the basis of that.
I'll say two things though:
When I say that I haven't seen the argument, I mean exactly that. I assume there's some reason for why they're doing it other than "they got shitty ethics my dude", and that I just haven't heard it.
Secondly, revolutionary times calls for revolution politics, which sometimes mean doing shitty things. This might end up being the right choice from the PYD in the long run, and that it just doesn't seem that way from my comfortable office chair.
>When I say that I haven't seen the argument, I mean exactly that. I assume there's some reason for why they're doing it other than "they got shitty ethics my dude", and that I just haven't heard it.
It's indeed more than just that. The KNC is a mouthpiece of the KDP, Barzani's party.
For some time now the KDP has both blockaded Rojava and tried to send over the Rojava Peshmerga in Syrian Kurdistan, while also undermining the PYD and the Rojava project by cooperating with Turkey and openly setting up anti-Rojava groups.
This seems more like an excuse to finally take action, as before the PYD was actually pretty chill. Even Baathists are allowed to operate openly in Rojava.
>Secondly, revolutionary times calls for revolution politics, which sometimes mean doing shitty things. This might end up being the right choice from the PYD in the long run, and that it just doesn't seem that way from my comfortable office chair.
It's a shame it had to come to this. But there just wasn't another option. The PYD has been very patient all this time. Even when the KDP blockaded Rojava, cooperated with Turkey, set up and supported anti-Rojava/DemCon groups, arrested YPG volunteers, send the Peshmerga after the Sinjar Resistance and openly advocated ethnic cleansing.
It definitely escalated in recent weeks though, which must have been the catalyst and final nail in the coffin.
Comrades, Rojava is now looking for civilian volunteers again. Big news.
Considering they said they will post the stream on to youtube; did you guys think it would be rude and impolite if I uploaded my own video of the livestream onto youtube?
>banning the largest opposition party
They are not even the largest opposition party; the 'Kurdish National Alliance in Syria' is.
Despite not being DemCons and slightly pro KRG; they do their best as a opposition party that doesn't collaborate with foreign governments and calls the YPG terrorists like the KNC does.
If they're look for IT techs at all then I could help there
Now every dude afraid of fighting can actually help instead of shitposting!
They probably are. Send them an email and ask.
I think it would be fine but you can always ask pisspig (@pisspiggranddad)
keep an eye on heval nestor's youtube channel
if they don't upload there within the next few days i'd say go ahead
Yeah well that's why I wanted to upload it; the internet is proper shit over there and uploading a 1 and a half clip will take them years.
Also happy Newroz everyone!
>Germany tries to ban YPG, PKK and Apo flags
>30,000 Kurds rally with all those flags and make Turkey furious in the protest
>30,000 Based Apo flags
Hell yeah, motherfuckers.
Anyone have a good article on Turkification of Kurds in the 20s? I read an article about how the state would cut the tongues out of kurds who spoke kurdish and such, but I can't find it again.
I think I will. Nothing for me in this country.
UK. I have a college certificate in IT but the porky job market is too fucking cancerous to sell my labour to.
are there consequences to joining YPG/IFB with your identity exposed? e.g. pisspig
ISIS offers bounties to western volunteers
Other than that it depends on the country. Denmark you get a few months based on a law which prevents citizens from joining groups in Syria (to combat ISIS, kek), don't know of any other red tape, US "doesn't condone" joining but won't prosecute, and obviously Turkey wouldn't be too happy.
Likely the worst that could happen if you aren't in some Sunni authoritarian state is getting killed by an ISIS sleeper cell which is unlikely
> Denmark you get a few months based on a law which prevents citizens from joining groups in Syria
Got a source? Because I don't think that's gone through court yet, but I might be completely wrong here, last time I researched this was 6+ months ago. As far as I understand the only things that have gone through court have been travel bans, and in the case of the one YPJ fighter who has been under a travel ban she hasn't actually tried it in court because she was in Syria both when it was given and a year later when it was extended.
Careful where you tread. The YPG(uncertain) and PKK(definitely certain) are considered terror orgs in most of the Anglo nations, Australia and Britain included. Just visiting Syria is grounds to be detained and interrogated here.
I think only Turkey considers the YPG to be the Syrian wing of the PKK, and thus a terrorist organization.
PKK is also considered a terror organization in mainland Europe.
>tfw thinking of going over there
>tfw hear about the incredibly minimal training volunteers are given
>tfw afraid of being poorly trained and dying from something stupid
>tfw don't know if I should do something stupid like join the military(specifically the FFL) for training and then desert
Fug, what do I do comrades?
>PKK is also considered a terror organization in mainland Europe.
My impression is it's SLIGHTLY more complicated than that? The EU itself classifies it as a terror organization but more member nations DON'T classify it as such than do.
Whatever you do, keep in mind that preparation is key to survival. The less you have to pick up down there, the greater your odds are for ever coming back.
If you dont feel comfortable, dont do it.
Yeah I think a Belgian court ruled in favour of the PKK and said their fight was legitimate.
Turkish lobbies extremely hard for PKK to be recognised as terrorists though. In fact most of their lobbying is based around "pls recognise Gulenists and PKK are as terrorists"
>SDF commander spoke on the people’s attitude towards them and said that dozens of Arab youth joined the SDF and they were met with great interest from the people. Serêkaniyê said the people’s attitude towards them is very positive and added: “From these liberated villages, many young Arabs have joined us, and they continue to come. As the people see us, as they get to know us their morale improves. They tell us, ‘What we were told about you and what we see are very different. They spoke very badly of you, but we have seen you and gotten to know you. We have seen that what they told us is wrong and they are lies.’ On the other hand, the people on the Deir ez-Zor side come to our side and cross over to the liberated areas. There are civilian organizations helping these people. They distribute food to the people. They are doing their best to alleviate the troubles the people are going through.”
This will be the same after SDF liberate Raqqa. A lot of people in Raqqa are probably afraid that SDF are bloodthirsty communists because that's what ISIS has been telling them for years, but when people actually see SDF they realise it's bs. pkk1978 also said that Arabs used to run away when they saw YPG (they'd later come back and realise there was no reason to run away)
I'm going to basic training in my country to get prepared. No way I'm going into battle unprepared like most volunteers. The sad part about the YPG is that their combat-training is actually combat. I read a reddit AMA where an international volunteer said that a western tabur (its name was just a few numbers, I think) suffered heavy casualties because the guys had no prior training. Most of it is luck, I guess, but understanding what you need and don't need to do in such a scenario is key. Besides, actual military training will not only help you survive, it would also make you more effective in your combat role.
I've heard on the news that a danish-kurdish dude got his passport taken because he went to Syria. Tbh, I'd rather go through Sweden than Denmark, since I have never heard of anyone being detained for going to Syria there
wtf I love tankies now
seriously though is there anything more pathetic than being a Western paid shill for salafist rebels
his avi looks like he's having a stroke
When can we get a heval chichek banner?
Yeah, a travel ban. A travel ban is pretty different from actually serving time. I know they passed that amendment back in 2015 or whenever to make it possible to give ISIS fighters &c a travel ban - by revoking their passport (interesting to note here that in a post-schengen world, this doesn't actually in any way stop you from leaving the country). But I don't think there's any precedence of criminal charges, or at least there wasn't the last time I researched this.
There was a woman, a dane, that briefly joined the YPJ, and she was arrested and charged but ultimately the charges was dropped.
That sets the legal precedence.
>I'm going to basic training in my country to get prepared.
How do you do that without committing yourself to a long stretch in the military? Are there private training courses you can pay for?
Not that guy, but in many countries you can do basic training that lasts for a couple of months with no long term commitment, here there's a pretty long waiting list though.
Since you said 'briefly' I thought you were referring to someone else, she's been in Syria multiple times.
Yeah I know of this case. The prosectution never pressed any charges on basis of fighting in the SCW, they only pressed charges because she opposed the travel ban, which I'm pretty sure went to court - can't remember if they passed sentence.
The prosecution didn't make a statement about whether or not they would press charges for fighting, which might mean that they don't have a case to make yet or that they're still investigating the legal situation. I feel that if it was a clear-cut case of them not having a strong legal basis to charge her on, they would just have said that.
The prosecution might still charge her and all the ISIS fighters tomorrow, but as of now the only precedence is - as you say yourself - the fact that the prosecution has chosen to not press charges even when the evidence is pretty strong.
Well, that's obviously a given, but I'm not sure what I could prepare for other than fitness, Kurdish, and maybe shooting.
I don't think anyone can feel comfortable about going into a war zone. I'm always wanted to be a soldier and this finally seems like an opportunity to be one and actually do something good. I'm just afraid of going over there and not having any idea what I should do. I could prevent that by joining and getting trained by an actual military, but of course that, along with deserting is pretty extreme and might not be worth it and my worries might be overstated.
Unfortunately if I did that, I'm have to desert sooner or later if I actually wanted to help Rojava and not just be another pawn to be used by imperialism.
This sounds so weird to my ears, like, you can't do basic training without also commiting to long term service? Where in the world are you at?
The idea of being able to do basic training without committing sounds strange to me.
Why would an organisation train you without demanding something in return?
Chichek's story of running away from forced marriage to the YPJ is very common. Tons of very young Kurdish in Turkey girls run away from their parents who are forcing them into marriage and join the PKK.
The PKK then gets portrayed as having kidnapped children.
Because they believe it's a public good to have militarily trained populace?
The millitary is publicly funded. Asking why they would do that without demanding something in return is like asking why should the state give welfare to the weak? Why should the state fund research, culture or any other thing that a state does that doesn't necessarily have any direct ROI.
It's also a good way to get people into the military, we don't really have the same tradition of 'muh troops' here as in the US. Get young people to spend their gap year doing "SEMPER FI" for a couple of weeks, show them how to shoot a gun, give them free food and a punch of pocket money and a lot will stay around afterwards.
It might just be the european social democracy in me that's speaking then. We have a mandatory 'draft' service that lasts 4 months I believe, it's pretty much just some basic training afaik, they just get so many volunteers that nobody has actually been drafted for like a decade.
I considered doing it for the weapons training and muh hireability, and I still might if I ever find myself without home or work. The pay is also pretty good.
It speaks volumes that they'd rather risk their lives and fight ISIS than to have all ambition and joy beaten out of them by assigned husbands.
There are women in Uzbekistan who, rather than continue living with their husbands and their husband's brothers and so on, choose death by self-immolation. They choose burning cooking oil over systemic acquaintance-rape. Craig Murray described this phenomenon as being so common that there was a hospital/shelter in Samarkand full of mummified women, attended to by a handful of female doctors, abandoned by everyone else.
As painful as it is to see Chichek go to war so young, I can't really blame her for wanting to.
>YPG and Russian forces established a Civil-military operations center in Qatmah
Not entirely sure what that means but Russian and YPG relations are growing stronger by the day
>2014 - ISIS terrorist selfie in front of the gates of Kobane town.
>2017 - SDF fighter picture in front of the gates of Raqqa city.
Aint that beautiful friends
Was there any other group that managed to get both Russian and American support at the same time?
>YPG spokesman Redur Xelil told Reuters the agreement with Russia was concluded on Sunday, and that Russian troops had already arrived at the position in the northwestern region of Afrin with troop carriers and armored vehicles.
>"The Russian presence … comes in agreement between (the YPG) and the Russian forces operating in Syria in the framework of cooperation against terrorism and to help train our forces on modern warfare and to build a direct point of contact with Russian forces," Xelil said in a written statement.
>"It is the first (agreement) of its kind," he added.
Yes, YPG as a semi neutral actor in the syrian civil war are prepared to take what they can from both sides.
>"We aspire to exceed 100,000," Xelil said in response to written questions from Reuters. Asked how soon the YPG aimed to reach this target, he said: "The second half of 2017."
>The militia, which had 60,000 fighters at the end of 2016 - including its all-female affiliate, the YPJ - has already formed 10 new battalions since the start of this year, each comprised of around 300 fighters, he said.
>The 10 new units and other new battalions to be formed this year will be trained in all forms of combat, weaponry and tactics, with the aim of turning the YPG into a more organized force that resembles a traditional army, Xelil said.
>"A disciplined, cohesive military force, well-trained in different tactics of war … is the true guarantee to defend us and to affirm our presence as a great nation that deserves dignity,"
At the end of the day the only thing Rojava can rely on is its own strenght and its ideological commitment.
Say 100,000 YPG in Syria and about 30,000 PKK in Turkey and you've got 130,000 socialist revolutionaries right there. And there's thousands of other leftist allies in the region too. Beautiful to see :')
That's nothing. The active Turkish Army personnel alone counts more than 600,000, with millions of citizens available for military services.
Obviously it's smaller than the conscripted army of a nation of 73 million but it's a good starting point.
How should I proselytize the good word of Murray Bookchin to normies?
Memes are good. If they're actually interested in reading his work, then The Next Revolution is a good book to promote.
I remember when I first became a leftist I always romanticized the Spanish civil war and wished to have been alive to witness it. Fast forward to today I get the muh privilege to witness the Rojava revolution save itself from utter annihilation at Kobane, against all odds, to then go on to defeat Da'esh at the gates of Raqqa, help build the International Freedom Battalion and defend itself against Turkey.
What a wonderful time to be alive.
>when you remember that Erdogan will die in your lifetime
>Tons of very young Kurdish in Turkey girls run away from their parents who are forcing them into marriage and join the PKK
IIRC the PKK is celibate, just like the YPJ. I am aware that kurdish society still has conservative elements but I feel that
>The PKK then gets portrayed as having kidnapped children
is just türkröach propaganda
We (western leftist orgs) should be the one's setting up training camps and funneling fighters to Rojava.
I always romanticized the Spanish Civil War as well read both For Whom the Bell Tolls and Homage to Catalonia in my late teens. I always thought if there was another situation like that I would undoubtedly join the leftist side. Now that I have the opportunity I feel paralyzed. Should I finish school first? What would my parents think? Do I have the temperament to fight and kill? It feels bad, I feel like a coward.
Don't feel bad m8. Don't let what others expect and think to influence what you what to do and what you think is right. Finish school if you want to go down the path it leads to. Your parents will probably hate the idea because they don't want you to die in some war, but it's your life to live. I don't think there truly is the right temperament: there's 16 YO sheltered girls and 40 YO war veteran men fighting, killing, and dying right now, along with hundreds of western volunteers just like you. But don't feel like a coward; if you go over there, you should do it because you want to make a difference in the world, not because you think you have some obligation and that you're a bad person for not fulfilling it.
>Franceschi was vague about his background, but wore a Mao pin, owned a fortune in Bitcoin and spoke seven languages, including Arabic and Kurmanji. With no military experience, he was sent to the front line, where Kurdish defenders were outnumbered perhaps five to one. "I felt scared as hell," he said. "I knew there were Chechen terrorists, crazy fighters from ISIS. At night, we heard them speaking on the radio, more in Russian than in Arabic." For the next three months, he never slept more than two hours at a stretch. "I was lucky," he said. "I survived long enough to learn how to fight." ISIS made the tactical error of pulverizing the city to ruins, which forced its fighters out of their stolen tanks to move on foot. "That's when the fight got real," Franceschi said.
>More foreigners arrived, all leftists, and they formed a sniper unit. "This was the first internationalist team," Franceschi said, showing me a photo of himself in Kobani alongside a Spanish anarchist, a British Kurd and Keith Broomfield, the first American known to have died in the ranks of the YPG. "A lot of comrades were martyred during that time," Franceschi said. "There was a lot of violence. But believe me, there was so much warmth. The conversation, the intimacy that you get knowing that you're fighting for something and that you're in the right. There were no ranks. You could go to your general, slap him behind his head and ask him for a cigarette. It was amazing. I had the time of my life, even though I lost my best friends there."
>Franceschi was back in Syria for the Raqqa operation. It would be his third tour in as many years, but he was disappointed in the international turnout. During the Spanish Civil War, something like 60,000 foreigners fought for the anarchists and communists against the fascists. In the Syrian Civil War, Franceschi said, "the Western volunteers are basically a joke, while ISIS has tens of thousands from the Middle East, thousands from Europe. So what does that say about us?"
That last bit always gets me.
I know how it feels man, I'm in the same boat. I feel energetic about the revolution but am still in education.
But seriously don't feel bad; abandoning school half way through ain't a good idea in the long term in case things don't go as planned. Also dying young is pretty shit and will just add to your death anxiety which isn't good on the battle ground.
Also you ain't a coward pal; if you've got obligations at home then that's just normal and even seriously considering about throwing away everything just to fight for people you've never met is something not many people are willing to do.
If things go as planned they will need educated people more than anything else. Seriously get educated and join the recently reestablished oppertunity to join the civilian side.
They have enough fighters, what they truly need are revolutionaries that can build the revolution itself and not just protect the seedling of it. Also you will experience a massivly underreported side of Rojava and can inform people of the things that we actually care about.
>tfw probably extremely little need for compsci now and in the future
>know nothing actually useful like engineering
Well that pretty much summaries my plan tbh. Though by the time I finally finish the rest my education the SDF would have already stormed into and taken both Istanbul and Baghdad.
>watching the IFB periscope
>guy starts talking about Kronstadt
>PissPig cuts him off halfway through and says the rebellion deserved to be crushed
>Anarchists IFB member out of shot whacks PissPig in the head with a pen
kek, revolutionary banter
you know I'm really impressed with Rojava's security system. I only really thought about it after the Damascus bombing the other day but they they a great job.
If you are serious about helping just ask them, they literally need everyone with some education.
>The parliamentary delegation of the Russian State, Duma visited the Syrian capital Damascus; to discuss the formation of a committee to re-draft the constitution and discuss the establishment of autonomous regions for national minorities.
>"It is impossible to achieve reconciliation in Syria without establishing autonomous regions for national minorities, , Vladimir Vasilyevo ,the leader of the Russian Federation's State and the Head of Duma bloc without mentioning the name of this minority, but observers said the statement was meant for the regions Controlled by the PYD.
>On Monday, the Syrian regime hosted a number of Duma representatives of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in Damascus to discuss with the regime officials the formation of a committee to rewrite the constitution.
>"The two sides agreed to form a constitutional committee in the Syrian parliament to lead qualitative changes in the Syrian-Syrian dialogue, according to the demands of the UN Special Envoy to Syria Stephane de Mistura," said Leonid Slotsky, head of the Foreign Relations Committee of the Russian State Duma. Details of the constitutional process and the formation of the constitutional committee in the Syrian parliament.
Isis has a lot more sensational headlines and publicity.
I think normies dont even know there is a far left, communist thing going on.
I think the kurds could use some high production propaganda videos themselves.
Also, really, when there is an actual chance to fight all the big talkers are going to run away and be all "yeah, got homework to do", while the people with nothing to lose are going to go running in.
ISIS' propaganda should be studied after this all ends. They burned their Amaq offices in Mosul before they were captured which is a bummer.
They put out some of the greatest and most crisp combat footage I've ever seen. I'm assuming they lose tons of camera men due to how close to the fighting they are.
PUK trained Rojavan special forces so it could be that they are doing this again.
Its sad that all the supposed leftist in media are just liberals and not geniune radicals that would be willing to help out in Rojava.
Wonder if this is the same cultural autonomy the Russians proposed the last time (ie you can speak Kurdish and celebrate Kurdishness but that's it), which PYD outright rejected.
am watching this documentary about yazidis
are they rojava?
the only Yazidi factions who are aligned with Rojava are the YBS and YJE. They are located on Shengal mountain in Iraq.
I just skimmed through and it seems like these are Peshmerga Yazidis. So they're not Rojava aligned. YBS are our guys.
Here's a documentary about the liberation of Sinjar. PKK, YPG and YBS are heavily featured:
Daily reminder that every demcon on this board should help the revolution in anyway. I get that a lot of y'all don't want to see combat, but you could still help in a non-lethal role. A dude old as dirt from the gernan ML party went there to build shit that helps the population. I get the feeling that a lot of people here are just larpers avoiding action in an actual revolution. This is the fucking spanish civil war of our generation - the most important and sincere revolutionary event since the creation of this board.
Is there anyone here who has been through the process of applying to join the YPG? I contacted them a couple of weeks ago, was given the standard list of questions to answer, and submitted my answers. Since then, though, I've gone a week without getting any reply. As they had asked, I sent them a reminder after 3 days, but it doesn't appear to have made a difference. I don't know what to make of this. I know from posts made here that even if you get rejected they tell you and explain why.
Do you send your stuff encrypted or unencrypted? Try the opposite of what you are currently doing. Just stay persistent their organisation seems to be lacking.
I did it encrypted at first but they couldn't import my public key for some reason so I switched to unencrypted. I'm glad that you also got the impression that they are unorganised, I was worried it was a reflection on me. But they did reply promptly every time until now.
IFB said in their periscope that it takes persistence to get everything finalised so it's normal.
in non Rojava news: the rebels have apparently begun a huge offensive to take Hama.
Good music taste tbh, future communist music will truly depart from the marches of the past.
PKK on the other hand literally use Pirates of the Carribean soundtrack in their Gerila vids.
lmao that's so cringy
Two Steps from Hell is also pretty common
Russians and YPG volunteers celebrating Newroz.
The Russians seem to be a lot more hands on and cool than the Americans.
Probably because the Russians are regular soldiers, probably including conscripts just doing their minimum, while the Americans are ultra-cool badass SPECOPs that might know these are the type of people they usually kill.
This isn't the first time I've seen ancaps support Rojava.
Something something - no taxes, private property - something.
Actually not that surprising, considering that ancap would just turn into feudalism without local ownership of resources. You can't allow unregulated capitalism, enforce its excesses and hope to have anything resembling "freedom" at the end of it.
be sure to inform us along the way when they get back to you
extremely unreliable source but he says that Erdogan has given some Euphrates Shield rebels to go ahead to abandon fighting YPG so they can go fight in Idlib
What is the difference between libertarian municipalism and Ocalan's democratic confederalism?
Definitely an anarcho-"capitalist" that's just ignorant of what Capitalism truly is and think it's the same thing as free-exchange and markets.
A lot of people here like to conflate the "anarcho" and the "capitalists" ancaps into one, when they're really quite different, considering the "anarcho" ones are basically crypto-feudalists while the "capitalist" ones are basically just ignorant anarcho-individualists.
SDF seem to be making an attempt at Tabqa. SAA are getting blitzed around Hama by the rebels.
USA made an airdrop near Taqbah, I garuantee you that they used the recently arrived PUK SF for that too.
This Tabqa op sounds like a simultaneous amphibian and air drop mission. Here's the gains so far.
I'd expect the SDF troops involved to be some of the best so I could definitely imagine PUK special forces and maybe YPG's own special forces HAT.
Fuck, that is absolutely genius.
>tfw the war might be over before you can get there ;__;
>#BREAKING: US artillery supporting operation to seize strategic dam near Syria's Raqa: Pentagon - via @AFP
>SDF and US troops captured Hidaj, Al-Mushayrifah, Al-Jameen and Al-Krain. Road between Aleppo and Raqqa cut
>US helos have airlifted 500 Syrian fighters into area west of Raqqa to seize major dam across the Euphrates held by ISIS
>5 Helicopters started the Airdrop operation backed by fighter jets. US & SDF fighters controlled the peninsula area & Shurfa town.
little rundown on Taqba
>>tfw the war might be over before you can get there ;__;
Seriously though, how long will it be now? I can see ISIS crumbling very quickly.
>Special forces of #Rojava Asayesh (HAT) with American commandos did air landing west #Tabqqa #Raqqa and controlled several villages.
Atleast a year to go barring major geopolitical shifts or failing gov-SDF relationship.
Why do you say that?
get ready for "leftists are scared to confront radical islamist terror" hot takes
When you see the extremely fast offensives by the SDF you allways underestimate how long things will drag on between them. Its evident that they aim to sorround Raqqa completely so we will have some months more of fighting on the southern side of the river. Then there could very well be a few weeks if not months of waiting time till the assault on Raqqa starts in ernest, preparing and recruiting. After that DeZ is on the plan probably, which is another two major phases to close in on the city, and then the city itself. Cleaning all the way to the Iraqi border will also take a month at least. I also still believe that propper conflict with Euphrates Shield will happen, sooner or later.
Afrin will probably get into conflict with the Idlib rebels once Rojava made a basic agreement with Assad, as I dont think negotiating with the rebels is possible. They have laid claims on some crucial regions at the border before. And trying to aquire more land to increase their standing is only reasonable.
Turkey or Barzani going insane is allways possible, Assad being dumb too. SDF internal disputes could also delay things till they sort out the exact composition of the attacking forces.
I think when SAA launch an assault towards Idlib (which is a long while off and will be one of the biggest battle of the war), Afrin SDF will start to push in when the rebels are collapsing, much like how Sheikh Maqsoud operated when Aleppo was falling. Russia will give em a nudge to do so too.
Jaysh al Thuwar have a heavy presence in Afrin and they're itching to do a number on the jihadists in Idlib who kicked them out.
Syrian Civil War Map @CivilWarMap 12m12 minutes ago
Syrian Democratic Forces captured Tabqa Dam from #ISIS
how can one revolutionary socialist guerrilla army be so based
>Then there could very well be a few weeks if not months of waiting time till the assault on Raqqa starts in ernest
So when the YPG talk about beginning the attack on Raqqa in early April, they just mean the encirclement of the city?
Early April still seems very soon to me.
Syriac Military Council have chosen this as their flag and have erected them around Hasakah. Bit Romanian.
Do they want civilian volunteers who don't have any particular skills?
By civilian, do you mean that you lack military experience or that you want to serve in a civilian role? If the former, yes, if the latter, no.
Can't have too many doggos
what do the colors represent?
Apparently those are reoccurring colours in Assyrian folklore. Found this explanation:
>There are many of out folk songs, be it in eastern or western dialects, of all the spectrum of colors in nature, we see that they both sing about two main colors: Smuqa, ou Zarda, (i.e. Sumoqo, ou Shaoutho), meaning Red, and Yellow, plus the third color Blue which represented in the color of the two rivers Tigris and Euphrates, which is implied when they sing of Bet-Nahrin/ Beth-Nahreen (or Land of the Rivers). Examples:
>In eastern dialect: Kha karma milya warde, warde SMUQE ou b’ZARDE… (a vineyard is filled with red and yellow roses).
In western dialect: O’tad’o 3abirina… Habobe da haqle SHA3ITHI ou SAMIQI (the flowers of the field are red and yellow).
>Notice that in nature, there are flowers and roses of many colors, yet our people regardless if they are eastern or western they both picked two specific colors, Red and Yellow!
>The third color is spelled out in one of Sargon Gabriel’s songs that is based on an older folk song, he sings: SMUQA, ou ZARDA, ou SARBELLA… (Red, Yellow, and Blue). But nevertheless there are many songs about Bet-Nahrin/Beth-Nahreen the Land of the Rivers, and that implies the blue color. As to the songs about Bet-Nahrin, they are too many to list.
If we follow our folk traditions and use those three colors, Red Yellow and Blue, then one of those three colors would be agreed to represent Assyrians, and the second color would be agreed to represent Chaldeans, and the third color would be agreed to represent Syriacs, then we have the problem solved, because we would have a unified flag. It could be just 3 plain colors, or if the people agree to add a 4-pointed star, and/or an 8-pointed star, and/or a winged disc, that’s fine, no problem, they can add that too and get over with it, and have one flag!
Here's another little piece about Assyrian symbols and colours:
anyone got any recent polls regarding the upcoming referendum in Turkey? last I saw Erdo was struggling more than expected
nice documentary on SDF. Manages to show some non YPG forces like Sanadid too, which is rare.
Some pics from the Taqba op.
They're gonna go on and take Taqba city and the airbase now too.
Nice to see the YPG got some real equipment and not old AK's
yeah, I think those guys were special forces tho
They're financed by someone or some contry? Or they just receive russian training?
There are YPG special forces. If they are the ones on the picture I am not entirely sure. But judging by the small person in the background of the third pic with a YPJ patch it is likely as no other group has female special forces.
Russian, American, French, German and even some gov equipment. The YPG are diplomatic realpolitik at its best.
Yup, you can see their 'YAT' (Yekineyen Anti-Teror) badges here if you look closely. YAT are YPG special forces. HAT are Asayish special forces. And I think HPX are HPC special forces.
Every tier of Rojava's defense forces has a special forces branch and often a female branch too. Hella acronyms bruh.
>how can one revolutionary socialist guerrilla army be so based
Generous US help? I mean, good for them, but superior ideology didn't airlift anyone.
THE CALIPH DON'T LIKE IT
(rocking the Tabqa, rocking the Tabqa)
How do Communalists and Kurds in Rojava view Socialists/Marxists?
I know that most of the western volunteers are Anarchists. Is it because there's a stigma against socialists on the ground?
Not at all. YPG s one of the least sectarian leftist groups in the ground. They have the M-L MLKP and other socialist groups as allies on the ground and MLKP international volunteer Ivana Hoffman has been continously honored as a sehid/martyr
Very interesting, but…
I consider myself to be more of a Luxemburgist. I am more ideologically similar to the anarchists.
Are there any other socialist group you can think of? I want to learn more about the foreign factions helping out in Rojava.
This is a good overview.
If you're thinking of joining I'd say the Antifa tabur is multi-tendency and has lots of western volunteers compared to other groups which are mostly Turkish socialists
This is a PKK fighter's explanation of the PKK and YPG's relationship with the MLKP and the MLs and Maoists in general.
Rojava opens its doors to any leftist militant group from Turkey. So now you have groups like MLKP and TIKKO with bases of operation in Rojava and Qandil (PKK headquarters in Iraq).
Thanks for your resources.
to be fair to the Marxist Leninists, between the German MLs who helped in Kobani's reconstruction and MLKP's extensive community work and of course military backup in Rojava, they've helped the revolution out a great deal. It's nice to see leftist groups stick together in a region swarming with reactionary forces. It's this close coordination and solidarity that will benefit the leftists if anything ever kicks off in Turkey.
Are you Anglo? Because bob crow is a bunch of British, Irish, Yank an Canuk lads who are pretty diverse.
Anyone have any civi organisations working out there?
something like this you mean?
I am western but not white. I am fine with white people though.
YPG have had volunteers from everywhere, from China to Brazil. So your background or colour wouldn't matter regardless.
Oh I meant more in terms of language. Even with rudimentary Kurmanji, speaking with people in your native tongue would be important.
Solid, I actually have skills in the production side of things so eh.
I speak English fluently and I know some basic Turkish and Esperanto. My Kurmanji is slowly improving.
Oh, and on an unrelated note: how do people even get to Rojava nowadays? I am not going (I know you are watching ms. May), I am just leigt interested.
Where the Assyrians really just Don cossacks the entire time?
Comrades these diary entries from a French volunteer (that Blanquist guy PPG talks about) details the journey to Rojava and fairly up to date tellings of his exploits there. Very good reading. If you can't read French just pop it into Google Translate.
You fly to Sulaymaniyah and then a YPG contact will come pick you (and other volunteers) up and smuggle you across the border.
it's legal if you're a Brit I think
obviously advised against, but legal
Still doesn't mean GCHQ won't put me on a list for mentioning it, and I would rather have the ability to fly for now thank.
They let people who have already been to Syria go back out again, so I don't think you have anything to worry about.
>#BREAKING President Erdoğan: We are saddened by the interest Russia and US show in YPG
Poor Erdoggy is sad /leftypol/ :(
this is absolutely hilarious because after months of autistic screenching Erdogan has finally given up and acknowledged he got BTFO
>tfw want to go help but I'm trans
How do most Turks view the Kurds? I thought the average Kurd was in favor of peace in the Southeast but this article implies that 4 years ago most Kurds were angry that Erdoğan was negotiating with the PKK.
lol poor turkish hitler
Not all Kurds are pro-PKK. A large number of Turkish Kurds are Islamists, supporting Islamist Kurdish parties like Huda Par/(Turkish/Kurdish) Hezbollah or support AKP.
There are also those Kurds who were recruited by the Turkish government as village guards against PKK
there'll never be concrete numbers on to what extent Kurds support the PKK but look at the predominately Kurdish areas in Turkey and look at the party they vote for. It's HDP (purple). During the peace process HDP acted as PKK's political wing and HDP's ideology is broadly similar to the PKK's, if a bit more watered down for parliamentary politics.
As >>1508026 said thought there's a very large amount of pro Erdogan and Islamist, conservative Kurds too.
I made typo.
I meant that I thought the average Turk in Turkey was in favor of peace but that article paints the picture that a few years ago, many Turks protested against Erdoğan because he was negotiating with the PKK.
Very interesting. I didn't know that Kurds were that divided regarding autonomy.
Just because you want autonomy does not mean you like the PKK. PKK did a lot of shit over the decades and many blame them for bringing the war to the cities.
Yeah thatswhy Erdogan started the war, he lost to many votes to the nationalists and the HDP because of the peace process.
I think most Turks are in favor of military annihilation of the PKK rather than a peace process tbh. It's easy for a Turk in Istanbul who's never been to the South East to vote down peace though. This happened in Columbia too. The areas most affected by the FARC/Government war unanimously voted for peace in their referendum whilst city dwellers who would never have to face the consequences voted for more war.
I see. So he may win the upcoming referendum because he is agressively courting the nationalists.
I assume Turkey has more nationalists than HDP/Kurdish sympathizers.
Which is why NI voted on good friday: not the whole of the UK.
This makes sense. And it makes sense why Kurdish citizens in Bakur are hesitant to support the PKK.
Do the cosmopolitan Turks even realize that the Kurds are being slaughtered in the south? That they have a separate language and culture?
Erdogan has entered a sort of coalition with the fascist party MHP but MHP voters themselves are kind of split on Erdogan, to the point where Erdogan can no longer count on them and is in danger of losing the upcoming referendum. That's why he's trying to aggressively campaign in Europe. The diaspora in Germany and Holland could make or break this referendum for Erodgan. It's kind of on a knife edge.
Even cosmopolitan turks are raging nationalists that believe the anti-Kurd propaganda even when they know that most media is in the hand of Erdogan, its pretty insane. Only minorities and socialist Turks support the Kurds from my impression. Not an actual expert though.
The consensus seems to be:
"Kurds used to be oppressed but they aren't anymore, why are they stilling whinging?"
"Barely any civilians are killed, it's all propaganda… we only kill terrorists, Kurds are our brothers"
Then you have the MHP/Grey Wolves types who openly celebrate civilian Kurds getting murdered. These type of people are very common in the military and committed many atrocities against Kurds in the battles of 2015.
>A common slogan "The state is everywhere," decorates this wall as state forces remind Kurds the state under which they are living. "Girls we are here, we got into your caves," reads the graffiti on the right, a sexist remark referring to Kurdish fighters as 'girls' and Kurdistan a 'cave', also a term commonly used by Turkish media and politicians to denote the supposed primitivity of Kurdistan and Kurdish fighters. In the middle there is a Turkish flag.
>Interestingly the red graffiti underneath reads, "Long live Socialism" and a sickle and hammer can be seen just underneath the Turkish flag.
Why is the MHP split on Erdogan?
I always run raging nationalist teenagers who seem to be into mainstream pop culture but then claim the Kurds are terrorists. I simply brushed them off as extreme nationalists on facebook, but it's saddening to hear that they are common.
Think some MHP view Erdogan as a traitor and terrorist sympathiser for initiating peace talks with PKK. There also seems be be divide on the Turkish far right between Islamo fascists and secular fascists. Erdogan's Islamist leaning AKP might not jell with the latter faction.
SDF are calling on Deir Ezzor refugees to join SDF in preparation for the liberation of the city. So if you wanna see some action, you might miss Raqqa, but you could arrive in time for Deir Ezzor
Raqqa is going to drag out for years. It's an actual historical caliphate capital. ISIS is going to fight even more fiercely for it than they're fighting for Mosul.
Kobane, Manbij and currently the last of Mosul has only taken months and not years. It'll take a long time to take Raqqa, sure, but "years" is an overstatement imo. Idk tho I ain't no expert.
It's build on one side of the Euphrates, facing Rojavan territory.
It's also smaller than Mosul.
Google translate fucks up sometimes but I can still understand. Great writing by him. I hope he's safe. Pic he posted.
He was in the IFB periscope with PissPig the other day so he's defo safe.
I find it interesting that he wrote very disparagingly against the sort of social media presence PissPig maintains. I like PPG and he's funny, but sometimes he overdoes it with all the selfies and interviews I feel.
This is what I meant, unpoliticals shitting on politicals even when the YPG itselve like the politicals much more. While pretending that the political ones never fight. Pure scum.
I feel like journos are the sweet spot between unprotected and deserving to be killed in the street by crazed loners.
What I found particularly distasteful is the guy ridiculing "the fertiliser project" or however he framed it.
This is what he's talking about. Rojava Plan raised 100,000 euro and undoubtedly helped Rojava a great deal with the project. Disgusting that it's shrugged off as some "brooklyn hipster idealism".
Not to mention that afaik ALL volunteers on the civilian side are ideologically motivated to a degree. How many non ideological idiots have become cadre in the party and help to strenghten the revolution? Do they think that the revolution is not important? Do these people completely forget that the YPG was only capable of defending the Kurdish people because of ideological cohesion and dedication? I really dont get liberals sometimes. Even they should be able to see that Rojava only works because they are not Barzani nationalists that allied with Al-Qaeda and try to implement Kurdish nationalism in arabic areas.
>when someone says "I support the YPG but not the PKK"
>when someone says "I support the PKK but not the YPG"
I could see someone not totally educated on the situation going "well the PKK are terrorists right?"
It's not exactly wise to publicly support the PKK in countries that consider it a terrorist organization. Just saying
Its easy to support the YPG command but criticising the PKK command for specific actions. And if you look at the individuals in charge of the PKK and make an informed deciscion that their ideological direction is bunk but the PYDs one isnt then there is nothing wrong with supporting the PYD but being highly critical of the PKK.
>A senior YPG commander speaking to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity said, “According to an agreement between Turkey and Russia, Turkey was to hand over al-Bab to the Syrian army after capturing it from IS. But Turkey did not leave al-Bab. To the contrary, it is now building a second base on a dominating hill outside al-Bab. It had already built a base at Aktarin. When the Turks didn't pull out of al-Bab, Russia wanted to send them a new message. Russia’s rapprochement with the Kurds stems from the weakness of Turkish-Russian relations.”
>Will the rapprochement affect the partnership between the United States and the Kurds? The senior YPG commander replied, “No. We initiated contacts with Russia after openly speaking about it with the Americans. We told the Americans, ‘If you are not willing to cooperate with us at al-Bab and Afrin, then we will have to look for other connections.' They did not react. The Russian and American positions on Raqqa have become closer. This makes it easy for us to set up relations with both of them.”
Interesting reading. Also semi confirms my suspicion that Afrin will play a part in liberating Idlib when the time comes.
>>A senior YPG commander speaking to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity said, “According to an agreement between Turkey and Russia, Turkey was to hand over al-Bab to the Syrian army after capturing it from IS. But Turkey did not leave al-Bab. To the contrary, it is now building a second base on a dominating hill outside al-Bab. It had already built a base at Aktarin. When the Turks didn't pull out of al-Bab, Russia wanted to send them a new message. Russia’s rapprochement with the Kurds stems from the weakness of Turkish-Russian relations.”
Never trust a Turk.
Just kidding, there are good Turks browsing this board.
Screw going back to kill hitler that all turns out alright in the end. Go back to kill ataturk.
Ye, PPG is criticised a lot for this social media presence. These guys are incredibly brave, I think they have every right to boast about what they are doing. The frenchman doesn't seem to be too keen on this, even though he states that pictures, etc. are a big part of modern activist culture - you know, the whole agitate part of leftism and such
That's the west for you. Multitudes of faggots behind keyboards.
Are people pro-Assad in here?
I sure as hell hope you are.
>supporting a neo-liberal
Pro-Assad as in better than rebels? yeah, no shit
Pro-Assad as in I view him as the great anti-imperialist (tm) proletarian hero like tankie twitter does? fuck that noise
people generally accept Assad as the lesser evil to Al Qaeda but I wouldn't say pro Assad either.
People like PPG are important to get the word out. If the criticism is that PPG is monopolizing the social media presence then it's really because others aren't doing more about it.
I like that French guy, but he has essentially no "name" to him, no identity. People like to admire and draw inspiration from "Heroes". Remember that female commander that died in Kobane? Those are the kinds of people that instill inspiration and motivation.
It would really help if there was a media division that could do daily updates -in English - about Rojava. Not just war, but also the work they're doing. Basically TYT style.
Youtube is actually great for this because of how accessible it is.
I wouldn't say "pro-Assad" as much as the opinion that Assad is not the priority, and removing him is not desirable.
In the end you can be pro-Rojava, while still recognizing Assad is at least a "necessary evil" or admire how he turned things around.
And Rojava-Baath relations definitely appear to be warming from the look of it.
>Remember that female commander that died in Kobane
RIP Arin Mirkan
And how is he evil again?
If he does to Syria what Kadhafi did to Libya, he sure as hell shouldn't be considered evil in any way.
So many stories of heroism from Kobani.
>“Our comrade Arîn, one of the 15 of our comrades who fell, carried out an action against the gangs, sacrificing her own life in the process. By this action she killed dozens of gang members and demonstrated the YPG and YPJ fighters’ determined resistance. If necessary, all YPG and YPJ fighters will follow her example, and the gangs will not be allowed to achieve their aim of taking Kobanê”, YPG underlined and gave the following details about the identity of the YPJ fighter;
When all is said and done Kobani's resistance will be looked upon as the pivotal moment in Rojava's history.
You mean besides being a despot that tortures people? see >>1511047
Every country on earth does that.
And in a region as unstable as the ME, do you expect him to be clean ?
I am turkish and thinking of joining would I get discriminated against because of tensions between Turks and the PKK. I wanna join because I'm a communalist and believe in the right to self determination
No you wouldn't. The majority of the non-Kurdish foreign volunteers in Rojava are Turks.
>Every country on earth does that.
Doesn't make it OK
>And in a region as unstable as the ME, do you expect him to be clean?
Retarded logic. You're not even good at being an assad apologist
Turks are the most numerous non Kurd volunteers in the YPG. Many, many Turks have died fighting for Rojava. Both PKK and YPG have extensive links with Turkish leftists groups. I don't think as a Turk people would find your presence weird or distasteful, not in the slightest. A ton of YPG likely speak Turkish too.
Please be very careful with this though comrade. It's obviously especially dangerous for you as a Turk as a leftist in a time like this.
Now I can tell people I have "read" the book. I'd never admit I listened to an audiobook tho
Of course you're welcome. As others have said Turkish volunteers make up the greatest share of foreign volunteers.
But as said, be careful when contacting the YPG. Use a VPN and do not use your real name. You can get in serious trouble.
Bruh, Democratic Confederalism is his shortest work. It's a few hours of reading tops
Did anyone upload the interview with IFB members on periscope?
Gaddafi was cool guy, actually
Just because they have a right to doesn't mean they should. Narcissism is annoying and tries to take the focus from the greater collective and transfers it onto the one individual.
Getting the word out is important, ya, but it should be about the war and revolution, not about yourself, and I think that's the criticism PPG gets, in that the articles and the social media posts are centered on him and not the revolution. People do like heroes, but you can't really artificially create a hero.
>Just because they have a right to doesn't mean they should. Narcissism is annoying and tries to take the focus from the greater collective and transfers it onto the one individual.
I meant in a way that highlights the struggle. That why the YPG likes foreigners, it's good publicity. More people need to know about the revolution, and the best way is not through bullshit mainstream media that only describes them as "kurds", that's why the people who have been there should spread the word. I totally agree that the "pathalogical cases" (the rambos and psychos) shouldn't have anything to do with the revolution. But having sincere people (that aren't just revolutionaries) spread awareness, like that: above mentioned frenchman; the Italian that wrote "il Combatante"; or the Swede, Jesper Söder; Jordan Matson; or that britt with Reddit AMA's; etc. The war is one of the most documented ever, we get real time tweets about combat and operations, as such it only makes sense for the political side to be just as covered - which is why I fully support international fighters sharing stories and pictures, teaching the world about Rojava. But as you said, there is narcissism involved. I think this could be solved by having the members post anonymously. It do not like it when PPG is known as a war tourist and is being accused of being a poser, but he brought it on himself with too many egocentric (and hipster ironic/sarcastic) publicities. I would enjoy having the foreigners be anonymous rather than scream their names, this way they aren't accused of narcissism and thrill seeking- but to be honest the foreigners do want to get their name out, just like the frenchman said,
Apparently PPG ate a meal with SAA. Molly and Phil will have a fit
Your average SAA soldier is likely a conscript with no bad feelings towards the YPG or Kurds. Funny how Western tankies who've never been to Syria or probably even never met a Syrian are so angry at the YPG on their behalf
The revolution will be led from my bedroom. Armchair revolutionaries are the true vanguard.
Well of course. Assad is the solution to a prosper and wealthy Syria overall. Rojava will be a part of this new Syria. Most Kurds support this, but want autonomy within this new Syria.
For anyone interested in /SyrianGeneral/ telegram chat: https://t.me/syriageneral
Even their stupid ass memes show how retarded these guys are, lol.
>m-muh cute wome… womyn!
Why'd they care? Some insignificant faggot doing nothing of relevance, oh wow. This will change the entire conflict. Geez, you people are desperate.
Syrian soldiers not giving much of a fuck about kurds, because Syria was a secular multicultural nation from the start, has nothing to do with the overall treacherous character of the kurdish nationalists whoring out to the US. Some footsoldier wont have any trouble, but if they'll start fighting against Syrian unity, they'll be shot by that very same soldier without batting an eye.
No "tankie" ever had a problem with kurds fighting ISIS in general (US money against US money though, that "irony" or rather scheme they're ignoring for their ethnonation state, lmao). However, if they attack Syrian unity, they'll be ended rightly. This is nothing but a warning of consequences while laughing at western anarkiddies for their pseudo-revolution that isn't socialist, US driven and was formerly very anti Assad and had no interest in remaining in Syria.
Funny how you fags now pretend this never was the idea behind it. Wetting their pants over their failed US destabilization and now trying to fall into the syrian governments favor again.
>tfw you share this board with unironic counter-revolutionaries
>for their ethnonation state
>Syria was a secular multicultural nation
who treated its Kurdish minority like shit and tried their best to Arabify them
> but if they'll start fighting against Syrian unity
protip: they won't, never said they will, haven't done anything of the sort
>they'll be shot by that very same soldier without batting an eye.
SAA got their shit kicked in in Hasakeh and Qamishlo when clashes erupted.
>now trying to fall into the syrian governments favor again.
The war is coming into its final chapter and the victors will be SAA and SDF. Reconciliation between the two is tentatively starting and people are happy. Why aren't you happy that there'll be peace in Syria?
are you a salafist or something bro
if you had any idea how much you sound like tankie twitter
The Iraqi government has suspended the Mosul offensive because of an outcry over civilian casualties. Big deal or nah?
>Phil Greaves throwing a fit
>Syria was a secular multicultural nation from the start,
It still is, and that's exactly what the Federation wishes to preserve.
Now get lost tankie. They're actually trying to build an anti-imperialist alliance.
Go support ISIS or something.
DemCon-Ba'aath-Social Nationalist Alliance when?
kurds can have their country if they like but if they secede from syria they get crushed by turkey unless they become US bitches, like a second israel, where CIA-chosen white kurds rule over black kurds and steal yemen kurd babies from hospitals.
they aren't asking for their own country. they want a federalized syria.
i don't really care what kind of word games the US tells them to play.
the whole SDF thing was ridiculous enough, as if turkey was as retarded as the americans and europeans who fall for the al-Qaida to al-Nusra to al-Sham to HTS renaming.
>m-muh cute wome… womyn!
Funny that the government is copying them with their muh women brigades. At least YPJ actually fights and are not just medal sluts for anti-imperialists and senior SAA generals to have a wank over
Nice buzzword my retarded friend. What sounds more like an ethnonation state to you: Syrian Arab Republic or Democratic Federation of North Syria?
Hint: One of those removed Rojava because of its ethnic connotation
> However, if they attack Syrian unity, they'll be ended rightly.
Like they did in Hasakah in 2016? Imao tankie boy. Keep dreaming
Who knew countries with deep states and intelligence networks could be just as retarded as your average man on the street?
They're cooperating with the SAA, and like you said, they would be forced to deal with the threat of Turkey as their own country. Why would they want to be their own country.
>the whole SDF thing was ridiculous enough, as if turkey was as retarded as the americans and europeans who fall for the al-Qaida to al-Nusra to al-Sham to HTS renaming.
They also have Russian support. In fact, Russians were the one who most support their federal project (i.e. pitching that federal constitution in Astana, facillitating negotiations between gov and PYD in Hmeimim)
i'm not saying kurds are terrorists, just that renaming PKK to SDF is retarded as fuck.
well as long as assad has other areas to retake first he will accept whatever system the kurds are using. the question is if they can convince him that their system still benefits him after the war.
googling for "kurds syria federalized" yields only shit results, do you have a link to a good summary of what they plan to do to get protection from turkish aristrikes?
from what i heard turkish military can't do shit against anyone in syria on the ground.
>Renaming PKK to SDF
>well as long as assad has other areas to retake first he will accept whatever system the kurds are using. the question is if they can convince him that their system still benefits him after the war.
Look at it from another angle: How does going to war with the Federation - thus ensuring the complete destruction and balkanization of syria - help Assad?
>i'm not saying kurds are terrorists, just that renaming PKK to SDF is retarded as fuck.
They didn't rename it. SDF is an umbrella group that includes other smaller militias, as well as the YPG, the syrian wing of the PKK.
> How does going to war with the Federation - thus ensuring the complete destruction and balkanization of syria - help Assad?
assad is the syrian guy. he doesn't have to attack kurdistan, erdogan will, if kurds have no protection. right?
yes, yes, and al-Nusra is not al-Qaida at all.
…sorry for being such a newfag, i just usually follow the war from russian/syrian/iranian perspective.
i honestly have no idea how kurds are planning to cooperate with assad.
>yes, yes, and al-Nusra is not al-Qaida at all.
wtf are you talking about, no one denies that the PKK is mostly in control of the SDF
>no one denies that the PKK is mostly in control of the SDF
that one guy seemed to have issues with it. but maybe it was just because i said "renamed" instead of whatever the correct word for this is. afaik the whole SDF thing was done only to mask PKK membership so turkey doesn't go nuts.
>afaik the whole SDF thing was done only to mask PKK membership so turkey doesn't go nuts.
Turkey is already going nuts, and it doesn't matter what name they use. The YPG is a different organisation to the PKK, and the YPG is only one part (the biggest part, but still) of the SDF
PYD and KCK are seperate organisations though though. They have the same goals and ideology yes, but are seperate enteties. (KCK has the bigger influence of them both)
SDF are just an alliance of the PYD's Military arms and thier Allies (Arab, Ezidi and Assyrian for the most part)
>white kurds rule over black kurds and steal yemen kurd babies from hospitals.
What the fuck does this even mean?
He makes getting into Sulaymaniyah sound very dicey. Why was he carrying that suspicious equipment? And would it not have been a better plan to apply for a visa beforehand instead of counting on getting one at the airport?
(Western) Europeans and Americans traveling to Iraqi Kurdistan automatically get a visa.
He says he had to give a cover story to get it, so it can't have been automatic.
KRG are sneeky. They basically try to bait you to admit you're going to the YPG so they can arrest you, because they are jash in the pockets of Turkey. Fucking dissapointed a part of my people has completely turned against unity and ideology in favour of getting in the good graces of bourgeois scum.
>assad is the syrian guy. he doesn't have to attack kurdistan, erdogan will, if kurds have no protection. right?
Assad wouldn't let that happen. He might not like the SDF, but at least they still want to be part of Syria. If Turkey attacked and invaded Northern Syria, then that effectively means annexation. But this is all just assuming Assad is the main player, when he isn't, Russia is, and Russia likes the SDF and wouldn't support Assad starting another civil war against them or Turkey - and effectively NATO/the West - invading and annexing Syria; there's rumors that the shit they're doing in the ES, basically annexing it and refusing to give Al-Bab to Assad, is what has made Russia forget about them and become closer to the SDF.