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/christian/ - How can a fallible machine claim to detect infallible scriptures?I'm like that fallible machine, I've called false religions "true" in the past. How can I trust myself to find the "true" one ever?
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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


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File: 97d9d919d8ee0a2⋯.png (324.94 KB, 382x417, 382:417, 1480013881938.png)

77777a No.370654

How can a fallible machine claim to detect infallible scriptures?

I'm like that fallible machine, I've called false religions "true" in the past. How can I trust myself to find the "true" one ever?

172304 No.370655


The bible is true because it says it's true. You should too

71d393 No.370658


You don't trust yourself you trust the Grace of God

408ed6 No.370684


Read/hear the Word of God. It's the only way.

Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The only other thing I can say is that you have to operate from a mindset that everything written in it is true (in its own words: from belief). If you read it in a mindset that it's just some religious book with historical claims that are to be judged by today's standards, its glory can't manifest. It is meant to be a standard for all time. So the approach you take to its true purpose is very important. And no, this same technique won't work on fallible scriptures or anything fallible. It only works on the real deal.

So read a version based purely on the received Word, such as the KJV. The modern, non-received versions once made me doubt the Word, too, anon. All that non-believing blather about "the oldest manuscripts" saying something else immediately throws readers off the track by introducing doubt. And that's why they were made. Not to mention the thousands of instances of removed or substantively altered text. If you can doubt a word, you can logically doubt the whole book. At that point you might as well scratch out Matthew 24:35, put down your incomplete book, and wait for the next archaeology expedition from Israel to bring the world more new revelations from God. Turned out longer than I intended, but there you go.

1490ad No.370719




Or you could become the pope and decide. That's the dark side route to the game.

f693a8 No.370721

File: 3dc06675eaeaebd⋯.png (112.08 KB, 208x206, 104:103, 1483787180826.png)




Stop partaking in wilful self-delusion.

9de3e7 No.370734


Sick ID.

230875 No.370773


Not an argument.


Try some of the Pragmatist's philosophy, because if you follow this wormhole deep enough you will tread into certain strands of epistemology which will end up turning into a cluster of materialistic reductionist "you can never know anything therefore you shouldn't do anything" nonsense. Basically if you have sufficient knowledge to formulate a plan for your environment and then execute it as predicted (vigorously), you know enough for it to be true.

Just saved you a PhD.

f693a8 No.370776


>Basically if you have sufficient knowledge to formulate a plan for your environment and then execute it as predicted (vigorously), you know enough for it to be true.

paganism is true marxism is true hinduism is true

8a3ac3 No.370784


This is why there needs to be both infallible Scripture (the Bible) and an infallible machine (the Magisterium) to interpret it.

408ed6 No.370793


>paganism is true

>Europe ??-AD 300

Enjoy all your hand-crafted dwellings being burnt down in the middle of the night and being levied as a eunuch slave for an enemy army against your will.

>marxism is true

>eastern bloc 1917-1990

>hinduism is true


14afd5 No.370904


You just put another step in the problem…having to find the "infallible" church to interpret for you. Coptic, Assyrian, eastern orthodox, roman papacy, Ethiopian, Lutheran, etc

Didn't solve anything really.

8a3ac3 No.370965


Just pick the one that was there when it started. The one that compiled the Bible in the first place. Jesus gave authority to the apostles as a group (infallible councils - everyone should believe this because if the council that chose the books in the Bible was fallible, then the Bible ought to be as well), and when they have gone astray he gave authority to Peter as a single member (ex cathedra, the See of Rome). The Great Schism was largely political, and the Catholic Church still recognizes the Orthodox Church as valid because it acknowledges they have the sacraments, but the Orthodox do not give the same courtesy to Catholics (for no reason). Now, this is a pretty biased post, but you should read the Gospels and Acts, multiple accounts of church history (especially early church), and the various writings of the Church Fathers and Desert Fathers of the first few centuries of Christianity. Then see if you still have any disagreements on who is legitimate and who is not.

f693a8 No.371004


>christianity is true

enjoy being killed in intra-religious war #453 after being levied by the pope and/or king and then dying of the black plague and then your descendants just spread secularism anyway once you've conquered the entire globe and spread it literally everywhere

385db2 No.371006


See, that's the problem I have with this line of thinking.

>Not believing X would make the Bible falliable, therefore, because it's infallible, we can believe X.

I find as much interest in scripture as the next anon, but the only genuine authority is Christ's.

72c891 No.371014


>penta sevens ID


1 in 60,000,000 chance of that happening with sevens specifically.

a22cee No.371064

How can finite creatures claim to detect infinity? It's the same concept. We cannot fathom infinite, nor can we fathom what it is to be like God. However, in order to logically explain the way things turn out, then there is a necessity for something that we cannot fathom, but must kmow is true. We cannot fathom infinity, but through the results of our mathematical findings, there necessitates that there be such a thing as infinity, and that it meets the requirements of infinity.

Likewise, the events that have led to where we are now necessitates that the Bible be infallible. Specifically, Christ. There are hundreds of prophecies pointing to Christ in the OT that only Christ fulfills. Take a look at Isaiah 53, for example. This prophecy was written 600-800 years before Christ was born, yet it summarizes the gospel and the mission that Christ would fulfill. The events that happened after Christ's death, like all but one of his disciples dying violently for their faith after they had denied him on the cross, necessitates that Christ rose from the dead. The way that these events were unfolded, as well, such as Christ's resurrection first being found by women, or the Jews writing a bitter hate decree of Christ calling Him a "sorcerer." The end results we have upon us necessitates that Christ was who He said He was, and thus, because He affirmed it, that the Bible is the word of God, therefore infallible.

We can never "prove" that it is infallible for the simple reason that it lacks the requirement to prove it empirically, but we can deduce it logically, as it is the strongest of the alternative explanations.

14afd5 No.371071

This thread is giving me a headache. Can someone explain how the Cathodox church was united for 1054 years if the orthodox don't seem to think the Pope is super-special? How did they view him

1490ad No.371078


OP is a true man of God.


By murder-torturing anyone who dissented and controlling the flow of information.

1c19e0 No.371081


>How did they view him

First among equals.

d3ebe2 No.371119


>paganism is true marxism is true hinduism is true

So you really think that all children born in the spring should be sacrificed, the state should own everything, and people should defecate on the streets instead of in toilets?

172304 No.371130


I think that was only after he first declared himself universal bishop in 607

408ed6 No.371141


You can't name a better civilization than Christendom. I ain't even trying.


Do you know who you're talking to?

>your descendants just spread secularism

that's jews.

819fae No.371145


That is towards the people who already accept the Bible as infallible.

The Church is infallible. The Church is created by Christ, and is the element that brings God's teachings and message.

92d2bd No.371150


Yep. There is no infallible religious authority on earth.

172304 No.371157


>the council that chose the books in the Bible

That first happened in 1546

8a3ac3 No.371265

File: 7095ad03869975e⋯.jpeg (89.97 KB, 640x640, 1:1, image.jpeg)

6056f7 No.371360


The physical world you see is not true. The truth is painful, but the World is deadly.

172304 No.371387

File: 65e5e8f8498fe82⋯.png (7.08 KB, 300x300, 1:1, reformer frog pepe.png)


>not an argument

226618 No.371394


That is neither what he asked nor said anon.


Council of Nicaea was 300 years after Christ.


>conquered by secularism

>more like conquered secularism

If trends continue, china will become the new center of Christianity with about 1/3 of the world following Christ.

Check-mate anon.

063565 No.371557


The Council of Nicaea didn't decide on the Biblical canon - though it probably didn't take until the 16th century either.

f693a8 No.371563


The problem is that the Gospels were written with the Old Testament in mind, and the writers drew intentional parallels between lines in Isaiah and the Psalms and the narrative they were writing down in their own books.

It is hard for us then to discern how closely the actual history fulfilled the prophecies of the OT, since the authors were self-consciously writing it to make those parallels obvious for their Jewish audience.

For instance, Matthew 1:22-3

>So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

references Isaiah 7:14

>Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Compelling. But let's look at the translations. The word that is translated as "virgin" in Isaiah 7:14 is the Hebrew word almah. The term almah refers to a woman of childbearing age, and does not actually have any connotations of sexual status in the original Hebrew, and is in fact used in Proverbs 30:18-20 to refer to an adulterous woman. Similarly, Isaiah himself used the explicit Hebrew word for virgin, betulah, five times in his writings, but used almah only once.

Now, why would Matthew translate use this to foresee a virgin birth if the word does not actually mean virgin in Hebrew? Because everyone would have been using Greek texts of the Old Testament in his time, as the Jews in Palestine did not speak Hebrew. The Greek texts translated almah into the Greek word parthenos, which does in fact mean virgin.


Greece and Rome ;^)?


It'll be very interesting to see how China turns out.

172304 No.371568


The council of Nicaea did not define a canon

172304 No.371569


It did

eb1d5c No.371615

d3ebe2 No.371626

172304 No.371661


[citation needed]

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